D&D 3E/3.5 Skill changes in 3.5

[Christian]

What IS the object of having a limited list of explicit skills? The ability to have a consistant mechanic for various different potential actions? How do knowledge skills break that?

It maintains a balance between the variety of the skill list and the number of skill points each character gets per level. If skills start multiplying, it gets harder and harder to justify focussing on any particular skill, because there are so many places you could put the points. WOTC has made a very good move in reducing the number of skills by folding some into others for 3.5, IMO.

 

[Caliber]

I like the unlimited potential of Knowledge skills (and to a lesser extent, Craft and Profession)

If someone wants to put 10 ranks into Knowledge: Mongooses, well they'll know pretty much anything there is to know about Mongooses, but not much else.

If they pick a broader subject, say Animals, they'll know a lot of general animal things but will fail on the real specifics.

Its not that hard of a system. Of course this requires that most classes have access to Knowledge as a class skill in at least some capacity (Fighters should probably be able to take Knowledge: Tactics and Monks should be able to take Knowledge: Crazy Kung-Fu Styles, for example)

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Monks should be able to take Knowledge: Crazy Kung-Fu Styles

"I know Kung Fu!"
"How many ranks?"

 

[totoro]

What I wonder about those +2/+2 feats is: if there are 2 feats that grant +2 to the same (e.g. feat1=Bluff+Diplo, feat2=Bluff+Intim), do they stack?

Prediction: they will not stack.

What you should do: convert the Bluff/Diplo and Bluff/Intim into two new feats (+3 Bluff, +2/+2 Diplo/Intim).

 

[totoro]

Re: Re: Also, skill feats

But I wonder what will become of Combat Casting now (+4 for a single purpose is not so good now, as we get +3 for every single Concentration check with Skill Focus now. Should be +6 now.)

Star Wars gives abilities that are +5 to a limited scope of a single skill. I bet Combat Casting is upped to +5.

 

[totoro]

AFAIK these are unnamed bonuses so they stack (you could take Stealthy, Skill Focus (Hide) and Skill Focus (Move Silently) to get +5 on both skills).

Very unlikely that +2/+2 and +3 skills stack. Other games tend to make higher bonuses harder to get. For example, +3 for skill emphasis is a prerequisite for +2 to the same skill (specialization). So additional feats that raise the same skill give you progressively fewer points. I believe the same will hold for 3.5e.

 

[totoro]

I like the unlimited potential of Knowledge skills (and to a lesser extent, Craft and Profession)

If someone wants to put 10 ranks into Knowledge: Mongooses, well they'll know pretty much anything there is to know about Mongooses, but not much else.

If they pick a broader subject, say Animals, they'll know a lot of general animal things but will fail on the real specifics.

Its not that hard of a system. Of course this requires that most classes have access to Knowledge as a class skill in at least some capacity (Fighters should probably be able to take Knowledge: Tactics and Monks should be able to take Knowledge: Crazy Kung-Fu Styles, for example)

That's the way we do it. However, players who have no DM input are often not interested in picking unusual knowledge skills because it is not clear that they will ever be useful. Seems a shame to waste skill points.

If it is going to have no effect on the game, and a player wants knowledge (mongooses), my response as DM is to allow it without forcing them to spend skills.

In any case, I think a relatively extensive, but finite set of skills is the way to go. Experienced players and DMs will obviously make up more when they feel like it.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Very unlikely that +2/+2 and +3 skills stack.

It is possible even now: you can take Persuasive (Song and Silence), gaining a +2 bonus on all Bluff and Intimidate Checks. Then, you take Skill Focus (Bluff), and get another +2 bonus (in 3.5e: +3) to Bluff. Since those bonuses are unnamed, and from different sources, they stack.

Note that Skill Focus gives you +3 (in 3.5e) to one skill, which you can choose, while the other feats give you +2 to two fixed skills.

 

[theoremtank]

Why have a list of all these different +2/+2 skill feats, such as alertness or the simple +2 skill focus? Song and Silence has many feats with a clever name that group together two skills that grant +2 to each of these skills.

They could generalize the whole rule mechanic and get rid of these long lists of custom feats and have one feat that grants +4 skill points.

Thus if you spend these 4 skill points on class skills you get a total of +4 ranks and if you spend them on cross-class skills you get a total of +2 ranks. If you mix them you get +3.

Then you could leave it up to the players imagination to dream up a clever name for how he spent his 4 skill points.

...by the way. I really believe it is a good idea that the skill list gets condensed in 3.5 and thus the skills become more generalized and usefull. I'm still voting that balance be eliminated as its own skill and be included with tumbling.

 

[Malin Genie]

I agree that reducing the total number of skills and making sure each one is reasonably broadly applicable is an unqualified good thing. The current proliferation of Knowledge skills is a real pain (especially trying to adjudicate things like "Of course my character knows what sort of poison the cobra has; she has Knowledge(Mongeese) and the cobra is their favoured prey!" or trying to assign DCs to increasingly specialised areas of knowledge.)

I do wonder what will happen to splatbook PrCs like the Divine Oracle (with its Scry ranks and Skill Focus (Scry) requirements and its bonus to Scry checks - now there will no longer be a Scry skill ... ?)