D&D 4E When will 4E appear?

[diaglo]

That's the reason WotC keeps the RPGA around. If you're playing an RPGA game, you'll have to convert when 4.0 comes out. They'll just dump any of the Living campaigns that don't convert. And it seems that RPGA games (like Living Greyhawk) had an explosion of popularity when 3.0 came out. I see a lot more people playing RPGA games than I ever did before D&D 3.0 hit the stores.

ummmm. that could also be b/c RPGA membership is now free. and wasn't pre-2000ed.

 

[Insight]

3.5 is becoming bloated and complex. If you stop to consider the literally thousands of options out there (mostly for the players' benefit), even if you only look at official WOTC products, the product is once again getting overwhelming. There are too many options and too many different flavors of what people can now call D&D, to truly call it stable.

Look at the final years of 2E. Is it truly that much different from what we have now? Yes, 3.5 makes more sense than 2E, but I don't see much of a difference between the wide variances we saw in flavors of 2E and the wide variances we are seeing now in 3.X.

The real problem is that this is a strange business. The first product you put out is the only one that customers really need. But profits need to keep rolling in, so more and more products come out to support the initial cash cow product. After several years, it becomes evident to the customer that they don't need all these extra products, and then where are you? As a company, you have to create things the customer will buy. Hence, a new edition.

Don't fool yourself into believing that new editions are put out strictly for the good of the game. I would like to think that's the case, but often, it's not. The bottom line, as always, is money.

 

[Mystery Man]

"It's like deja vu all over again."

 

[Abstraction]

The real problem is that this is a strange business. The first product you put out is the only one that customers really need. But profits need to keep rolling in, so more and more products come out to support the initial cash cow product. After several years, it becomes evident to the customer that they don't need all these extra products, and then where are you? As a company, you have to create things the customer will buy. Hence, a new edition.

Don't fool yourself into believing that new editions are put out strictly for the good of the game. I would like to think that's the case, but often, it's not. The bottom line, as always, is money.

Yes, but in order to make money, 4E cannot come out until people want it. Or at least until they can be convinced to buy it. WOTC is very market-savvy, unlike TSR. They will do what will make them the greatest amount of dollars over the most sustainable period of time, and that is to make the consumer happy. Unfortunately, I also believe that when Hasbro feels the profits have dipped permanently for D&D, it's going to sell it.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I agree that 3e/3.5e runs the risk of becoming bloated like 2e was and pretty much everything else Insight said.

 

[IronWolf]

Just thinking about getting the 3.5 books but I'm afraid that If I do, I'll be wasting my money because 4E might be right around the corner. I want to get the latest rule set, but that's a lot of money, to buy all 3 books. So anyone know anything about 4E and when it will be released?

I wouldn't worry about it. I highly doubt it is right around the corner. Go ahead and get the 3.5 books and start playing. There are plenty of people to play with and even *if* the 4th edition happens to come out sooner than everyone thinks, it is ultimately up to your gaming group to decide whether you want to move to it right away.

 

[DaveMage]

2E drove some people away from the game, while 3E seems to have drawn many back. If WotC is going to risk driving people away again with a change, it had better produce a stellar new edition.

With C&C coming out as a "simpler" version of the D&D rules, that angle seems to be covered.

I think there is certainly talent at WotC, but several of the people that had the vision to create and/or shape 3E (including Ryan Dancey, Peter Adkison, Monte Cook, and Skip Williams) aren't there anymore. Can the current talent at WotC pull off a new edition? I guess we'll see one day (although I hope that day is never).

I'm quite happy with the D&D climate at the moment and I don't see any need for change.

 

[wingsandsword]

3.x isn't unstable, not even close. It also doesn't really have the problem that 2e did with too many suppliments. After all 2e books presumed you had every other D&D book ever written, and loved to reference them all, including ones that had been out of print for years or never had big print runs to begin with (which WotC has been reluctant to do). 2e was unstable at the core, and too limited to play a wide variety of fantasy settings without very heavy house-ruling, at least 3.x is flexible in this regard.

Also, the 3.x core is actually self-contained. I never, ever saw anyone be able to play a decent game of 2e from just the core books, they were so rigid and inflexible. You could play a game with just the core books, but it felt like it was stripped down and had most of its parts missing. Those optional books, like the Complete Reprints series, are just that, optional. Your D&D game will run just fine without them all, and the people here on ENWorld aren't fully represenative of all D&D players. People who come here are very likely to buy everything WotC makes, and probably a lot of 3rd party stuff too. However, the typical D&D player, in my experience is a player and not a DM, who buys just the PHB, and maybe a sourcebook or two related to his favorite type of character or setting. That and most DM's I've seen lately don't allow "Kitchen Sink" campaigns where anything goes, including anything WotC wrote. Just because it's "Official" doesn't mean it's going in my (or someone elses) game.

D&D isn't like a CCG, it isn't collectable, you don't need booster packs/new books to keep playing. Also, there are games of 1e out there still after all these years, I know a 2e devotee who runs it when he can, plenty of people still play 3.0, and you can bet hard cash that when 4e comes out there will still be lots of players playing 3.5 and not having a whole lot of interest in migrating.

I honestly don't care when 4e comes out, because I am perfectly content with my own personal home-brew of 3.5, with some holdovers from 3.0 and a healthy dose of Unearthed Arcana variants. I have the version of D&D that works for me, and I really couldn't ask for anything better.

If I had to say though, based on prior patterns I'd put the release of 4e as Gen Con of 2007, up to 2009 or later if D&D sales are high and they don't need to drum up business by re-releasing the core books.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I am one of the folks sticking with 3.0 until 4E comes out when I will take a look again. I have always said Gen Con 2005 or Gen Con 2006. I am obviously wrong on the 2005 date but I am still convinced that the 2006 date is likely. A previous post stating WotC is dodging the issue only reinforces my belief. Seeing the current pattern of releases and barring any major surprises I don't see how WotC can be making the numbers that Hasbro expects out of them. If the date is 2007 or later then I think it will be only because Hasbro has somehow canged its buisness philosophy.

 

[arche]

The issue with 2e was that suppliments became required. In 3.x they aren't. In fact, I rarely buy supplimental materials because my wife won't let me. I'm happy with the core rules and if a player wants to add something additional, they can as long as I have a chance to look it over and think about it. I don't need to kill myself to make things "fit" before I join a game. So, financially (my personal finances), 3.x is much more stable than 2ed, but that's my feeble opinion.