D&D 2E Specialty Priests

[Alzrius]

It's still so odd that Specialty Priests xp and multiclassing was never addressed in a non-setting book, but there you go. Unless maybe there was a Sage Advice about it.

The closest I've been able to find is this question from Dragon #265:

The Demihuman Deities book says elf druids are limited to level 12 and half-elf druids are limited to level 9. Specialty priests of these races are limited to levels 16 and 18, respectively. Okay so far, but what happens with specialty priests who are actually druids (such as the priests of Rillifane Rallathil)? Do they count as druids or specialty priests when it comes to level limits?

In general, if the specialty priest is really another class (such as a druid or ranger), go with the other class's characteristics, including the experience table, saving throws, magical item use, alignment restrictions, level limits, and so on. Be sure to check the specialty priest description for specific exceptions.

 

[James Gasik]

So even though Druids are called Specialty Priests, even in the PHB, they are not Specialty Priests, they are Druids. blinks Thanks for clearing that up, TSR!

 

[Staffan]

So even though Druids are called Specialty Priests, even in the PHB, they are not Specialty Priests, they are Druids. blinks Thanks for clearing that up, TSR!

They're not, though. They are used as an example of "Priests of specific mythoi" (at least I think that's the term they use – definitely something close to it). The term "specialty priest" was, I think, only used in Forgotten Realms material, starting with Forgotten Realms Adventures.

I think there was some internal disconnect within TSR on the issue. The sense I got from the PHB was that the designers expected DMs to build priesthoods of individual deities, and mainly included the cleric as a placeholder and because of backward compatibility. The Forgotten Realms situation, with both clerics and specialty priests of the same deities was not what Zeb Cook had expected.

The situation also developed over the course of the edition, with Faiths & Avatars being a gigantic power-up compared to previous versions. As an example, here are the stats for Morninglords (specialty priests of Lathander) from first Forgotten Realms Adventures, and then Faiths & Avatars.

Requirements (both): Wis 14, Cha 12
Weapons (both): Bludgeoning only
Armor (both): Up to plate mail + shield
Major spheres (FRA): All, Astral, Charm, Creation, Elemental, Healing, Plant, Sun, Weather
Major spheres (F&A): All, Astral, Charm, Creation, Elemental, Healing, Necromantic (restorative forms only of reversible spells), Plant, Thought, Sun, Wards, Weather
Minor spheres (FRA): Combat, Divination, Guardian
Minor spheres (F&A): Combat, Divination, Guardian, Time
Bonus proficiencies (F&A only): Two of appraising, artistic ability, carpentry, cooking, juggling, leatherworking, musical instrument, and pottery.
Granted Powers (FRA):

• Turn undead as four levels higher if the undead are vulnerable to sunlight.
• Level 3: faerie fire 1/day.
• +2 to proficiencies in appraising, artistic ability, juggling, musical instrument, or pottery.

Granted Powers (F&A): As above plus:

• Light 3/day.
• Level 5: sunrise 1/day.
• Level 7: boon of Lathander 1/day.
• Level 9: false dawn 1/day.
• Expanded list of proficiencies with +2 (same as bonus proficiencies).
• +10% to the Resurrection Survival chance of anyone they raise or resurrect, not to exceed 99%.

As a comparison, a priest of a Dawn deity using the guidelines from the Complete Priest's Handbook would have:
Weapons: Bows only.
Armor: None.
Special: Use d6 instead of d8 as hit die.
Major: All, Charm, Divination, Elemental (air/fire/heat only), Healing, Summoning, Sun.
Minor: Animal, Creation, Necromantic, Plant, Protection, Weather.
Granted Powers:

• Charm/Fascination: As suggestion 3/day, can affect 2x level in HD, can't be used in combat.
• Immunity to level drain
• Turn undead.
• Level 10: chariot of Sustarre 1/day

The differences are rather stark. I have a memory of once trying to use the rules in Spells & Magic to see how balanced (or not) the priesthoods in both Complete Priest's and F&A were. I don't recall the exact rules, but Spells & Magic had a point-based system to design your own priest class, with both the cleric, the druid, and the new priesthoods in that book clocking in at... I want to say 120 points. Checking the ones in the Complete Priest's Handbook, I got point totals of about 80. Faiths & Avatars? 200+. Now, some of that was because the system greatly overvalued granted powers that let you cast spells, but still.

 

[Cruentus]

If you all don't mind, I'll add Pelor's priests from Greyhawk (From the Ashes), as further comparison:

Pelor is the great Sun God, regarded as the Creator of much of what is good - a power of strength, light, and healing.

Requirements: Standard
Alignment: Any good
Weapons: Flail, Mace, Morningstar, Staff, Staff-Sling
Armor: Leather or Chain
Major spheres: All, Charm, Creation, Elemental (Air), Guardian, Healing, Necromantic, Protection, Sun
Minor spheres: Summoning, Wards
SPL: None (Special spells only allowed to Pelor's priests)

Granted Powers:

• Turn undead at +1 level
• Level 1: all healing spells do at least median healing (5hp for cure light wounds, 9hp for cure serious wounds, 16hp for cure critical wounds, Heal cures all but 1-2hp)
• Level 5: automatic saves vs spells that deprive the priest of sight (darkness, blindness, etc.)
• Level 9: Fly (Wizard 3)

Looks pretty close to FRA above for Lathander, but obviously the powers and such differed widely.

Oh, and I found no evidence in Ashes that priests of specific deities, such as above, used anything other than the base cleric XP chart.
Though many of the 'specialty priests' do have fairly high ability score requirements, particularly if they have strong granted abilities.

 

[James Gasik]

Wow, you're right, I had to go back and check- "specialty priest" is not a term in the PHB. I think it appears in Legends & Lore originally.

So how Priests of Specific Mythoi/Specialty Priests are handled varies based on campaign setting, or what book you get them from, apparently.

Good to know, thanks everyone.

 

[Alzrius]

For what it's worth, the expanded list of spheres that specialty priests have access to in later books (such as DMGR4 Monster Mythology and Faiths & Avatars) was largely because of the new spheres introduced in Tome of Magic. Earlier sources, such as Legends & Lore, predated those (although in the case of L&L, there was an unofficial update to it in Sage Advice starting around issue #198 or so).

 

[glass]

Major spheres (FRA): All, Astral, Charm, Creation, Elemental, Healing, Plant, Sun, Weather
Major spheres (F&A): All, Astral, Charm, Creation, Elemental, Healing, Necromantic (restorative forms only of reversible spells), Plant, Thought, Sun, Wards, Weather
Minor spheres (FRA): Combat, Divination, Guardian
Minor spheres (F&A): Combat, Divination, Guardian, Time

I am pretty sure that Thought, Wards, and Time spheres were from the Tome of Magic which came out in 1991, which would account for their not being in FRA in 1990, so by my count that just leaves Necromantic. Since that sphere includes resurrection and its ilk, that's absence from FRA was probably just an oversight.

OTOH, all the extra granted powers are more significant.

Early 2e had a weird idea that PHB clerics and speciality priests (once they settled on that name) of each god would exist in parallel in the same setting. This was an issue for the CPH, since the spciality priests therein seemed to be mostly subtractive, and therefore were much weaker than PHB clerics.

_
glass.

 

[James Gasik]

I am pretty sure that Thought, Wards, and Time spheres were from the Tome of Magic which came out in 1991, which would account for their not being in FRA in 1990, so by my count that just leaves Necromantic. Since that sphere includes resurrection and its ilk, that's absence from FRA was probably just an oversight.

OTOH, all the extra granted powers are more significant.

Early 2e had a weird idea that PHB clerics and speciality priests (once they settled on that name) of each god would exist in parallel in the same setting. This was an issue for the CPH, since the spciality priests therein seemed to be mostly subtractive, and therefore were much weaker than PHB clerics.

_
glass.

Though the CPH "solution" to this, weakening the Cleric, was apparently unpopular, since it was never brought up again, and instead, as I mentioned, as of Legends & Lore and Monstrous Mythology, "specialty priests" were much stronger than the ones presented in the PHB and CPH, making a big chunk of the CPH a wasted exercise.

Then the Forgotten Realms books made Specialty Priest the best class in the game, able to have wild granted powers and poach the abilities from other classes, lol.

 

[GreyLord]

So, maybe I've been doing it wrong all these years for 2e. IN 2e, with the Priest/clerics, I designed one basic Cleric with spheres to be the basic cleric. I don't think I ever saw a listing for what spells and spheres a basic cleric could cast. I thus took it that we were expected to define that specifically for each of our campaigns.

Was there a list in the PHB? Or did the Cleric just get to cast all the spells listed as Priest Spells (seems awfully powerfully, and puts Druids and a BIG disadvantage).

 

[James Gasik]

Ah yes, page 33 of the first print of the PHB has this to say:

The Complete Priest's Handbook notes that this is somewhat problematic, compared to the Priests of a Specific Mythoi, and suggests limiting them to Major Access to only three spheres (one of which must be All, and the other two are of the player's choice), as well as Minor Access to two spheres of the player's choice.

The Tome of Magic, however, does not assign the new Spheres to the Cleric class, though perhaps Sage Advice had something to say about it- Alzrius pointed out in a previous post that the deities from Legends & Lore had the new Spheres assigned to them starting in Dragon #198.

EDIT: to my knowledge, the Forgotten Realms books (and perhaps other books with Specialty Priests, such as From the Ashes) instead kept the Cleric as-is, justifying the greater power level of Specialty Priests in those settings.

Whether or not the Cleric should be powered down compared to the Priesthoods in Legends & Lore, Monstrous Mythology, and Dragon Magazine is left for the individual DM to decide, but given that these Priesthoods generally outstrip the ones in the CPH, I'm assuming the staff decided not to revise the PHB Cleric.