D&D 5E Scott Rouse and D&D Team on 5th Edition ("satire")

[Wormwood]

Have you seen the Wizards 4E boards? The "doomsday" thread is the most popular one there. It's multiples the size of the "hallelujah" thread.

The Wizards boards have more concentrated hate and geek rage than ENWorld could produce in the sun's lifetime.

I only hope that those boards are the *first* thing ignored by D&D developers and designers.

 

[kinem]

I thought it was somewhat funny and made some fair points.

I am looking forward to 4e; it seems like it could be more balanced and easier to prepare characters with. Skills do need an overhaul, so that we don't end up with wizened old 20th level clerics that have no idea who the last king was because they have no skill points to spare for knowledge(history), and 20th level barbarians that can't swim. Social skills should be eliminated, as should the fact that searching for traps involves no player ingenuity, but I don't hold out much hope for those changes. Hopefully the really broken spells, like astral projection, fabricate, or gate (to pull your enemies onto the negative energy plane with no save), will be eliminated.

But I do not like the way they seem to be dumbing down monsters to the point where it would be impossible to write a fiction blurb from a monster's POV, and I do not like the way WotC handles its fans. They don't ask for fan input, or if they do, its after the product has already been finalized. They did mislead us on the schedule for 4e. And the quality of WotC products is very inconsistent, so there is reason to worry about 4e.

We all know about how in 3.5 Andy Collins ruined spells like Shapechange (and thus ruined high level play in 3.5) because he was under time pressure and just threw in some changes at the last minute instead of caring enough to get it right. The final version should have been playtested for all spell levels, which would have revealed a lot of the problems. Will full playtesting happen for 4e before the product is finalized? Will it just be a quick in house test, or load testing with numerous players with keen noses for broken combos to exploit at high level?

As for satirizing particular WotC employees, that seems fair game to me. They are public figures, and they have power over all fans. I welcome the fact that they sometimes post here, but that does not make them the same as ordinary community members. Also, the criticism was not personal in nature. To treat it as such would be like President Bush suing anyone who says he's a bad president for slander. If you've got power over people, then you have to let those people talk about you.

Also, I don't think that anyone can deny that the WotC business model is the following: 1) release a new edition, which everyone buys because it's streamlined compared to the bloat of the previous edition; 2) pump out supplements for a few years until the well starts running dry as almost everything has been covered and things are getting bloated; 3) repeat. That will always be their business model.

 

[Thurbane]

<snip>

Brilliant! Great satire, and it sums up my own feelings pretty much precisely.

Nice one!

 

[Kwyn]

And not only that, but this is EXACTLY the kind of reason the WotC guys were not here at ENWorld for a while.

Because everything they said, they got treated like dirt for. They weren't treated like other board members with any respect and so, they stopped coming around here and posting.

Now that we're FINALLY getting past that point and these guys are coming back here again, we do not need to just drive them right back off again.

They're not back because they've forgiven the enworld community, because they want to be helpful or gee, just cause they want to be part of the gang.

They're back because they want to sell you 4e

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Yes god forbid any do anything but toe the party line when WotC posts anything. /boggle

FIFY

 

[Fifth Element]

They're not back because they've forgiven the enworld community, because they want to be helpful or gee, just cause they want to be part of the gang.

They're back because they want to sell you 4e

Evidence?

Even if correct: dear lord, someone trying to sell their own products? For shame.

 

[Kwyn]

Evidence?

Even if correct: dear lord, someone trying to sell their own products? For shame.

My response was in regard to Ankh-Morpork Guard's repeated comments about how golly, gee, whiz, the WoTC folks just want to be friends!

Of course they're here to sell the product. No doubt time was spent in meetings or e-mails encouraging employees to go out on the boards and sell the game. I have no problem with that.

I do however find it odd that people might be so infatuated with quasi-celebrity that they give a complete free pass to the wiz-o's etc, without even attempting to think critically or wonder why they're popping up.

I love D&D. Been playing for 25 years. That doesn't mean however that I've got to believe everything they say.

 

[Mike_Lescault]

Not to be a downer, but yes, this stuff really bothers me.

What Scott and Dave say is correct, it's not that we don't have thick skin. It's not about us bring run off or not being able to take a jab (or twenty) in our direction.

It's because it's written in such a way that there will be *many* people who will not realize it is just satire. We can make fun of people who would believe, but we all know they are out there. And these quotes will resurface again and again. People will cite them to make all kinds of points, and to defend their positions on things, and I'll spend a lot of time trying to explain to people that those were not actual quotes from WotC personnel.

And that's what makes me sad about it. With the time restrictions all of us have, the less time I have to spend putting perspective on things that were never actually said, the more time I have to try and dig up useful information for the community and the D&D team.

I'm a big fan of satire, but only when it's clear that's what it is.

-Mike

 

[Plane Sailing]

Not to be a downer, but yes, this stuff really bothers me.

What Scott and Dave say is correct, it's not that we don't have thick skin. It's not about us bring run off or not being able to take a jab (or twenty) in our direction.

It's because it's written in such a way that there will be *many* people who will not realize it is just satire. We can make fun of people who would believe, but we all know they are out there. And these quotes will resurface again and again. People will cite them to make all kinds of points, and to defend their positions on things, and I'll spend a lot of time trying to explain to people that those were not actual quotes from WotC personnel.

And that's what makes me sad about it. With the time restrictions all of us have, the less time I have to spend putting perspective on things that were never actually said, the more time I have to try and dig up useful information for the community and the D&D team.

I'm a big fan of satire, but only when it's clear that's what it is.

-Mike

I'm with you on this Mike, so I've edited the thread title to make it clearer that it is satire.

In addition, Since the thread has been reported again (and there has already been two moderator interventions in the thread) I'm closing it.

Regards