OSR Must OSR = Deadly?

[DND_Reborn]

You're right, i reversed it, though the picture has the accurate distances.

Except the picture doesn't show the archers scattering and running for their lives.

 

[Michael Linke]

Calculate Angular Diameter

Calculator for the computing of the angular diameter of distant objects.

rechneronline.de

a 42' long dragon, 650' away has an angular diameter of 3.7 degrees. That would be slightly more visible than a house cat viewed from 24 feet away (3.58 degrees). I'm sure you could correctly identify the thing overhead was a dragon, but I really don't buy that you'd be subject to his aura at that distance. Though not strictly "canonical" for this discussion, 2nd edition specifies the fear aura only affects people "directly beneath" a dragon whose altitude is 250' or less and (edit) with 20 yards of the dragon itself.

 

[Don Durito]

I've noticed something of a disconnet between the OSR as often presented online, in which, while death is certainly not rare, the whole idea of the killer dungeon is not emphasised - but rather interactivity, exploration and opportunities for cleverness, and the games that I have come across in games stores and the like using old rules - which are often all about the arbitrary deaths.

One thing I've seen quite a lot is the insistence on playing AD&D 1e with characters rolled 3d6 in order - which isn't even how that edition was meant to be played and goes against Gygax's explicit advice.

 

[Michael Linke]

I've noticed something of a disconnet between the OSR as often presented online, in which, while death is certainly not rare, the whole idea of the killer dungeon is not emphasised - but rather interactivity, exploration and opportunities for cleverness, and the games that I have come across in games stores and the like using old rules - which are often all about the arbitrary deaths.

One thing I've seen quite a lot is the insistence on playing AD&D 1e with characters rolled 3d6 in order - which isn't even how that edition was meant to be played and goes against Gygax's explicit advice.

I would suspect that the arbitrary deaths in games played at shops is either a way to contain the adventure as a one-shot, or to just keep new people from coming in and changing an ongoing campaign.

 

[tetrasodium]

Calculate Angular Diameter

Calculator for the computing of the angular diameter of distant objects.

rechneronline.de

a 42' long dragon, 650' away has an angular diameter of 3.7 degrees. That would be slightly more visible than a house cat viewed from 24 feet away (3.58 degrees). I'm sure you could correctly identify the thing overhead was a dragon, but I really don't buy that you'd be subject to his aura at that distance. Though not strictly "canonical" for this discussion, 2nd edition specifies the fear aura only affects people "directly beneath" a dragon whose altitude is 250' or less and (edit) with 20 yards of the dragon itself.

a hundred archers assembled to shoot at a dragon are likely going to be aware that they aren't shooting at a maine coon cat, especially if it's 650 feet away & looks like this in the sky

 

[Don Durito]

I would suspect that the arbitrary deaths in games played at shops is either a way to contain the adventure as a one-shot, or to just keep new people from coming in and changing an ongoing campaign.

From what I've seen of these things, there seems to be both an expectation of continuing and also no need to worry about changing an ongoing campaign as they're pretty much groundhog day.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I'm sure you could correctly identify the thing overhead was a dragon, but I really don't buy that you'd be subject to his aura at that distance. Though not strictly "canonical" for this discussion, 2nd edition specifies the fear aura only affects people "directly beneath" a dragon whose altitude is 250' or less and (edit) with 20 yards of the dragon itself.

Whether you "buy" it or not, if you can see the dragon and it acts in such a manner you are subject to the fear it radiates (after all, it can eat you quite easily... ).

And this is a 1E discussion. Dragons in 2E were WAY more powerful (IIRC "old" dragons were immune to normal missiles) and even with the reduced fear range, would annihilate 100 archers even more efficiently.

 

[Lanefan]

I've noticed something of a disconnet between the OSR as often presented online, in which, while death is certainly not rare, the whole idea of the killer dungeon is not emphasised - but rather interactivity, exploration and opportunities for cleverness, and the games that I have come across in games stores and the like using old rules - which are often all about the arbitrary deaths.

This might depend on which OSR system is being run. DCCRPG, for example, goes through low-level characters like a thresher through wheat. 0e or 1e D&D can do likewise; but here the characters have a chance, through some combination of player skill and luck, to last a bit longer.

In my current campaign I just started a 1st-level group. They've already lost three of the starting six (we rolled up the replacements tonight) in preliminary action leading up to the actual adventure. Of course, face-charging a village of Kobolds after intentionally alerting them to your presence doesn't help much...

One thing I've seen quite a lot is the insistence on playing AD&D 1e with characters rolled 3d6 in order - which isn't even how that edition was meant to be played and goes against Gygax's explicit advice.

Yeah, I don't get this either. Basic was 3d6 in order, but 1e's supposed to use one of a bunch of (more or less) more generous roll-up systems with 4d6k3 being the most common.

 

[Don Durito]

This might depend on which OSR system is being run. DCCRPG, for example, goes through low-level characters like a thresher through wheat. 0e or 1e D&D can do likewise; but here the characters have a chance, through some combination of player skill and luck, to last a bit longer.

These games I've seen don't use OSR systems. They are just AD&D or some variation of Basic - but more often the former.

In my current campaign I just started a 1st-level group. They've already lost three of the starting six (we rolled up the replacements tonight) in preliminary action leading up to the actual adventure. Of course, face-charging a village of Kobolds after intentionally alerting them to your presence doesn't help much...

Well in that case they asked for it. 1st level is about skulking around and trying to survive long enough to grow up - it's not about being a hero.

With B/X I actually always give the choice of starting at 3rd level. I only start at 1st level if the players all want to do it. (Which they often do want to do.)

 

[tetrasodium]

This might depend on which OSR system is being run. DCCRPG, for example, goes through low-level characters like a thresher through wheat. 0e or 1e D&D can do likewise; but here the characters have a chance, through some combination of player skill and luck, to last a bit longer.

In my current campaign I just started a 1st-level group. They've already lost three of the starting six (we rolled up the replacements tonight) in preliminary action leading up to the actual adventure. Of course, face-charging a village of Kobolds after intentionally alerting them to your presence doesn't help much...

Yeah, I don't get this either. Basic was 3d6 in order, but 1e's supposed to use one of a bunch of (more or less) more generous roll-up systems with 4d6k3 being the most common.

Attributes scaled different in ad&d. It wasn't until like 6 in most attributes thst yiu got a -1 then 15 for the +1. There were some percentage things but those were just how big or small the bonus was generally if that bonus even applied to you .