How Visible To players Should The Rules Be?

[Reynard]

No antagonism, just if the player isn't aware they can do something (because they don't know the rules), they might not even try it.

The presumption is that you know who your character is, and that includes what they are trained in. If you are playing a star wars game like this and you are a padawan on the run after Order 66, you know what kind of jedi you are and what you likely know. The rest of the game is a conversation.

 

[Micah Sweet]

He might not even know he could try it, if wizards have been casting single action spells, without knowing they can take a ready action they wouldn't have an opportunity. Even if they cast a full round spell, would they even recognise it? Not without some understanding of the rules for actions and timing of actions.

This would fall under knowing what your character is capable of, in realistic terms.

 

[Bagpuss]

True, but that's not going stop some players from simply trying and hoping that they'll succeed at a particular action.

So some players will never try because they don't know they can, and how about the ones that do.

Say the first time he tries the wizard isn't casting a full round spell, so the DM rightly says sorry the wizard gets the spell off before you can react. You need to ready an action to interrupt, learning more rules... which if they had known beforehand, they would have been successful.

Next time they ready and action, but the wizard doesn't cast a spell, and their ready action is wasted, so they think it isn't worth it.

Then the wizard casts a full round spell and they don't even think to go and interrupt him because they don't know the rules about full round spells as they aren't the wizard so never needed to learn it.

There is a whole load of interactions that they are missing out on because they don't understand the rules of timing and actions fully, just enough to get through normal combat.

 

[Bagpuss]

This would fall under knowing what your character is capable of, in realistic terms.

Really it more falls under knowing what the spell casting character is capable of and how that interacts with your character. But already you are needing to learn a lot more than the minimum level of rules which is the point I'm making. The more you know the more informed a decision you can make, the more agency your character has.

 

[Reynard]

So some players will never try because they don't know they can, and how about the ones that do.

Say the first time he tries the wizard isn't casting a full round spell, so the DM rightly says sorry the wizard gets the spell off before you can react. You need to ready an action to interrupt, learning more rules... which if they had known beforehand, they would have been successful.

Next time they ready and action, but the wizard doesn't cast a spell, and their ready action is wasted, so they think it isn't worth it.

Then the wizard casts a full round spell and they don't even think to go and interrupt him because they don't know the rules about full round spells as they aren't the wizard so never needed to learn it.

There is a whole load of interactions that they are missing out on because they don't understand the rules of timing and actions full, just enough to get through normal combat.

I think this gets at one thing I think is important: this method works better with light rules systems.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I guess I am not sure what you are imagining would be a showstopper. Ostensibly everyone involved is still aiming to play the game in good faith.

That in no way stops people from having radically different ideas of how various things play out. That can require a considerable amount of back and forth. I'm speaking from experience.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Really it more falls under knowing what the spell casting character is capable of and how that interacts with your character. But already you are needing to learn a lot more than the minimum level of rules which is the point I'm making. The more you know the more informed a decision you can make, the more agency your character has.

You have a character who wants to disrupt enemy spellcasting. You ask the DM about the details, and they answer based on what your PC would know.

It's a conversation.

 

[Bagpuss]

You have a character who wants to disrupt enemy spellcasting. You ask the DM about the details, and they answer based on what your PC would know.

It's a conversation.

But until you know the rules exist you might not even know there is a conversation to be had.

 

[Bagpuss]

I think this gets at one thing I think is important: this method works better with light rules systems.

Well obviously if there are less rules to learn, then not knowing rules you are missing out on less of them.

Also I would say the closer the game is to a shared reality the easier it is to get away from having rules knowledge and just be a character inhabiting that world.

So Call of Cthulhu, most players know how percentages work, and how the real world works so can get by without needing to know much else.

Even something like Star Wars most players and GM will share an understanding of stuff like blasters, tractor beams and the Force, so the details of how the rules handles them can be left to the GM to work out.

But complex uncommon settings, or detailed tactical rules, will probably need and want more knowledge from the player for them to get the best experience out of it.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I'd suggest it may be that I place a higher value on the gameplay end of the experience, and under some circumstances insufficient information enhances that gameplay. I just think the degree to which some people want to apply that, instead, harms that gameplay (and frankly, some of the people who are prone to excessive information control seem hostile to the gameplay element in general). If you're coming from a more purely roleplay focused end, that might seem nonsensical.

Interesting because I’m largely viewing this with gameplay in mind. The participants knowing the rules and processes of play seems to fundamentally be about the game rather than about roleplay.

But until you know the rules exist you might not even know there is a conversation to be had.

You mean you wouldn’t just instinctively know that a spell could be interrupted?!?