D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[Azzy]

I'd look more to discussing how, given that they're in the Monster Manual, all Nobles must by definition be monsters...

Checks out.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I was thinking about this thread today, in light of just receiving a message from my DM in the Avernus game that I play that real life has just stepped on him and he will have to drop the game. Six months of gaming, and story, straight down the toilet.

Was there no fun to be had during the journey of playing those six months? Were there no exciting, memorable story moments to recall? Or was it actually fun with exciting, memorable moments BUT the fact that the overall quest never completed casts a pall over all that in your mind?

 

[Lanefan]

Was there no fun to be had during the journey of playing those six months? Were there no exciting, memorable story moments to recall? Or was it actually fun with exciting, memorable moments BUT the fact that the overall quest never completed casts a pall over all that in your mind?

Indeed.

I've had this same discussion with at least one other poster here, around whether fun in the moment matters or whether hindsight taints the memories too much. To me, for the most part fun-in-the-moment is all that matters: I can think of one failed campaign I played in the mid-80s that, for the whole 12 sessions it lasted, was glorious fun.

Thing was, that failed campaign also drove home a hard lesson for me: giving too much to the players can kill a campaign dead. The DM was a soft touch and kinda gave us almost anything we asked for - other than one unlucky player, our characters were completely overpowered for their level* - and the whole thing collapsed after just one adventure as we were already running roughshod over the setting without even trying to.

That the campaign collapsed before reaching any of its potential doesn't in the least dimisnish or taint the memories I have of playing in it.

* - my 1st-level Bard (Cha 19, Com 19, Dryad as species - in other words the ultimate charming machine!) charmed most of the occupants of a small town of Kobolds; the 1st-level Assassin and (Fighter?) stayed behind and finished off the rest while I sent my 500+-strong charmed army into the dungeon we were supposed to be doing. All we had to do was follow behind them and mop up.

 

[Hussar]

Was there no fun to be had during the journey of playing those six months? Were there no exciting, memorable story moments to recall? Or was it actually fun with exciting, memorable moments BUT the fact that the overall quest never completed casts a pall over all that in your mind?

Obviously I was enjoying the game as I was playing. But you’re ignoring my larger point.

Would someone or something stopping you from ever reading past page 100 of any story have any impact on your enjoyment of literature? Or would you just shrug and keep reading, being content that you got to read the first bit of many stories?

 

[Faolyn]

Obviously I was enjoying the game as I was playing. But you’re ignoring my larger point.

Would someone or something stopping you from ever reading past page 100 of any story have any impact on your enjoyment of literature? Or would you just shrug and keep reading, being content that you got to read the first bit of many stories?

Stories have endings. An RPG doesn't have to.

 

[Cadence]

Stories have endings.

Looks over at GoT and Kingkiller...

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Obviously I was enjoying the game as I was playing. But you’re ignoring my larger point.

Would someone or something stopping you from ever reading past page 100 of any story have any impact on your enjoyment of literature? Or would you just shrug and keep reading, being content that you got to read the first bit of many stories?

I get what you are saying. But, yeah, stories that are authored and stories that emerge via a TTRPG are two very different beasts.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Obviously I was enjoying the game as I was playing. But you’re ignoring my larger point.

Would someone or something stopping you from ever reading past page 100 of any story have any impact on your enjoyment of literature? Or would you just shrug and keep reading, being content that you got to read the first bit of many stories?

I think that your description was very illustrative on how you came to your feelings on D&D. It's a shame that you didn't get to the end of so many of your campaigns. I had a few that stalled out, here and there, but most of them have gone on as long as my group all wanted them to even in an extreme case, DE-LEVELLING the same characters so we could play them again at lower levels after "finishing" with them in an earlier campaign!

A lot of the things you see as "pointless", I totally disagree on, (travel and talking to NPCs being big ones) though I would agree if those things took too long - I think there's a happy medium between skipping them entirely (or near-entirely) and having them go until someone gets bored. A few sentences from the DM and each player involved, a roll or two, a conclusion - that will usually suffice for me. YMMV, of course.

 

[Hussar]

I get what you are saying. But, yeah, stories that are authored and stories that emerge via a TTRPG are two very different beasts.

But, the result is the same. I get to do the first two or three chapters and no further, every time. Or, nearly every time. So, I know that any campaign that I start is a race against the clock. Because, again, sure, I'm having fun in the moment. Of course. I wouldn't do it if I wasn't. That's beside the point.

Ok, if authored stories don't float your boat, let's use a game analogy because RPG's very much are games.

Imagine you never actually finished a game. You only got to play one quarter of a basketball game. Every baseball game gets rained out in the third inning. Every board game you play, you set it up (which, let's be honest, can take a significant amount of time) play for two or three rounds and then it ends, usually half way through someone's turn.

If you know, because it's the experience you have, that every single game you play has a time limit of 1 hour, then you're not going to play Twilight Imperium. You're going to change to play games that can finish in one hour.

So, telling me that the "journey" should be enough, is just like telling me that playing one quarter of a basketball game should be enough. It's okay that we never finish a game. Playing is fun, so, it's great that you never actually finish a game.

No, it really isn't. It sucks.

Does that mean we skip over everything? No, of course not. And written medium like this often lacks considerable nuance. But, that does mean that I do want to skip over superfluous stuff. Shopping? Nope. Do that between sessions. Chatting in the bar? Nope. Don't care.

If it isn't forwarding towards the goal? I don't want to do it. Otherwise, there's point in having goals. What's the point of having a goal that can never be achieved? And the reason we can't achieve it is because the DM will insist on faffing about, wasting time with a pointless ravine that doesn't matter. Wasting time picking a boat that is going to take us to the location fo the adventure. Wasting time forcing the player to jump through hoops to satisfy the DM's sense of whatis plausible.

Bugger that. Pull the thumb out, step on the gas and get going.

 

[Faolyn]

If you know, because it's the experience you have, that every single game you play has a time limit of 1 hour, then you're not going to play Twilight Imperium. You're going to change to play games that can finish in one hour.

Between job schedules and attacking toddlers, my table rarely gets to play for more than 1.5 hours each week. So we savor the time we have. So yeah, we often spend entire sessions on pure roleplaying. We often go for sessions without combat. It's not unknown for us to not even roll a die more than once in a session.

If it isn't forwarding towards the goal? I don't want to do it. Otherwise, there's point in having goals. What's the point of having a goal that can never be achieved? And the reason we can't achieve it is because the DM will insist on faffing about, wasting time with a pointless ravine that doesn't matter. Wasting time picking a boat that is going to take us to the location fo the adventure. Wasting time forcing the player to jump through hoops to satisfy the DM's sense of whatis plausible.

Maybe you need to readjust your goals? You might be happier if you do

At my table, actually defeating the BBEG is a goal, sure, but not the primary one--that's to have fun, explore our characters, and to roleplay with one another and with NPCs. And as such, we're usually happy with our games. Most of the time, if we're not, it's because of system issues, not because the game petered out.