Level Up (A5E) Best Beginner Build

[xiphumor]

As someone who really loves A5e, one point that can be tricky is getting a new player to play an “advanced” version of an already intimidating game. In O5e, you could hand someone something like a champion fighter just to get the feel of things, but the fighter in A5e is a lot more complex. Of course, you can let someone play an O5e character in A5e, but that’s bot quite as fun and doesn’t sell why A5e is better.

With that in mind, what are the best level 3 A5e builds to offer to beginners?

 

[Morrus]

Is a 1st-level A5E fighter really more complex than an O5E fighter?

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Is a 1st-level A5E fighter really more complex than an O5E fighter?

well, a first level o5e fighter gets:

• a fighting style
• second wind (recover hp as a bonus action once per short rest)

whereas a first level a5e fighter gets:

• a fighting style
• proficiency in 2 maneuver traditions
  • 3 combat maneuvers from those traditions
  • an exertion pool of 4 (from 2*prof bonus) to spend on using those maneuvers
• a soldiering knack

so yeah i'd argue a first level a5e fighter is more complex then a first level o5e fighter.

as for the main question, it might be a good idea (if you're starting at first level, as you should be with new players) to give a new player an adept, berserker, or rogue. they don't get maneuvers until second level, and don't have anything too weird going on with their first level class features like the marshal does. of course, they get maneuvers at second level, but by then they should be comfortable enough to be able to handle the extra complexity that brings.

 

[Morrus]

well, a first level o5e fighter gets:

• a fighting style
• second wind (recover hp as a bonus action once per short rest)

whereas a first level a5e fighter gets:

• a fighting style
• proficiency in 2 maneuver traditions
  • 3 combat maneuvers from those traditions
  • an exertion pool of 4 (from 2*prof bonus) to spend on using those maneuvers
• a soldiering knack

so yeah i'd argue a first level a5e fighter is more complex then a first level o5e fighter.

Both fighters have a heck of a lot more than those things. They have hit points and armour classes and saving throws and skills and proficiencies and equipment and ability scores and tons of other stuff, not to mention its race, subrace, and background features.

So in addition to the dozens of things the O5E fighter has, the A5E fighter it has a couple of combat maneuvers. It’s an extra thing to write on the character sheet, but I don’t feel it really adds to the complexity much. I really feel the complexity is being overstated.

 

[xiphumor]

Both fighters have a heck of a lot more than those things. They have hit points and armour classes and saving throws and skills and proficiencies and equipment and ability scores and tons of other stuff, not to mention its race, subrace, and background features.

So in addition to the dozens of things the O5E fighter has, the A5E fighter it has a couple of combat maneuvers. It’s an extra thing to write on the character sheet, but I don’t feel it really adds to the complexity much. I really feel the complexity is being overstated.

So a few points here:

1. I was specifically thinking of level 3 characters, which require an archetype/subclass. Leaving aside the classes for a moment, there’s no A5e fighter archetype which is as obviously simple as the Champion (which is a good thing), so I wanted to think about which archetype is the most approachable.

2. In O5e, fighters are obviously the simplest class. I don’t think that’s as obvious in A5e, and I wanted to take a moment to rethink whether the fighter should still be the default choice.

3. Above all, my interest here today is not in comparing A5e against O5e. The conversation I’m hoping to have is just “what are the best beginner builds in A5e?”

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Both fighters have a heck of a lot more than those things. They have hit points and armour classes and saving throws and skills and proficiencies and equipment and ability scores and tons of other stuff.

i mean, yeah, but literally everyone in the game has those. they're the fundamentals. if you're doing a relative comparison then listing the stuff that literally everyone gets isn't super helpful. that's why i stuck with class features - that's the main point where one character/class could be more complicated then another, and it's also the main thing you can look to when deciding what sort of character is best to give a new player as a result.

So in addition to the dozens of things the O5E fighter has, the A5E fighter it has a couple of combat maneuvers. It’s an extra thing to write on the character sheet, but I don’t feel it really adds to the complexity much. I really feel the complexity is being overstated.

i mean, i don't necessarily entirely disagree, but i'm also the type that picks up on how mechanics work very quickly. that said, the extra decision points (both in maneuvers and the soldiering knack) and the managing of an additional resource (exertion) to use multiple abilities that will vary between each fighter (maneuvers) are more complicated then what the o5e fighter gets (once-per-short-rest bonus action healing). i'm not personally interested in discussing how much more complicated the a5e fighter is compared to the o5e fighter.

 

[Morrus]

i mean, yeah, but literally everyone in the game has those. they're the fundamentals. if you're doing a relative comparison then listing the stuff that literally everyone gets isn't super helpful.

I’m not sure how telling a new player “ignore all that stuff, everybody gets that” reduces the complexity for them? In actual terms, a 1st-level A5e fighter character has maybe 5% more stuff than a 1st level o5e fighter. A new player probably isn’t going to notice any real difference in complexity. They’ve got to learn all that stuff whether or not all the other players have to also.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

1. I was specifically thinking of level 3 characters, which require an archetype/subclass. Leaving aside the classes for a moment, there’s no A5e fighter archetype which is as obviously simple as the Champion (which is a good thing), so I wanted to think about which archetype is the most approachable.

well there goes my recommendation, then.

2. In O5e, fighters are obviously the simplest class. I don’t think that’s as obvious in A5e, and I wanted to take a moment to rethink whether the fighter should still be the default choice.

it might still be fighter, honestly. they really double down on their maneuver usage, whereas almost every other class usually has something else going on.

3. Above all, my interest here today is not in comparing A5e against O5e. The conversation I’m hoping to have is just “what are the best beginner builds in A5e?”

maybe the brute fighter? the main thing they get with their subclass at level 3 is essentially just exertion smiting (and thus the ferald returns to haunt me again). the option to use exertion for extra damage instead of having to interact with the maneuver system seems like a good option for a new player - it lets them do something a lot simpler with their exertion if they aren't totally comfortable with maneuvers yet.

 

[xiphumor]

I’m not sure how telling a new player “ignore all that stuff, everybody gets that” reduces the complexity for them? In actual terms, a 1st-level A5e fighter character has maybe 5% more stuff than a 1st level o5e fighter. A new player probably isn’t going to notice any real difference in complexity. They’ve got to learn all that stuff whether or not all the other players have to also.

Agreed. They have to learn all of that stuff just like everyone else. So the question today is merely “how can we minimize the complexity of the optional features so they can focus on learning the fundamentals?” E.g. Don’t play a spellcaster at first, because it requires you to read through and manage access to lots of spells.

 

[Steampunkette]

Sharpshooter, Knight, and Brute are all great options for 1st time Fighter players picking archetypes.

Sharpshooter gets some extra maneuvers and no penalty for fighting point blank or long range at 3rd.

Knight gains some extra maneuvers and loses a bunch of armor-related penalties.

Brute gets to hit harder by ignoring their maneuvers to just dump exertion into big hits. Also more maneuvers they won't use. Because dump exertion into big hits.