• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

OD&D 5e in a 1e/OD&D built world

Nebulous

Legend
only by 2.5 for 6+ PC's.... (The DMG shifts parties of 6+ down one multiplier; and parties of 1-2 up one.)

so, to get down to 600 Difficulty Value for deadly, 4 skeletons. 50 x 1.5 x 4= 600.

My go-to method for many years was to just look at damage output from the monsters. Skeletons do 1d6+2 on a hit. At 8 points of damage max, and FOURTEEN on a crit max, no 1st level character will be standing after a crit. And that's just a hit from one skeleton. My internal logic dictates that you simply can't have more than 4 of them in a fight to give the PCs a fair chance of success. Bump it to to 6 skeletons for a hard fight. 8-12 skeletons? That is straight up murder.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

When it comes to encounter deadliness, there is more to consider than just CR and XP numbers, at least to old school DMs who are accustomed to factors such as morale, and intelligence/organization.

On one hand, skeletons are relentless, and never break morale. They fight to the bitter end and are never intimidated. They cannot be parleyed with nor bribed. This makes them a bit more dangerous than an equal number of goblins of the same CR.

On the other hand, skeletons are dumb and fight without regard to self preservation. They will march straight into prepared traps and not flinch even as they watch fellow skeletons get ground into meal doing exactly what they are about to do. Skeletons will not run to raise the alarm or go get reinforcements. This makes them a bit easier to deal with than an equal number of goblins of the same CR.

Environment also matters. The world is not a featureless white room in which every encounter is a simple math vs math exchange. The world the combat is taking place in should matter and have an impact on how things play out. So you have discovered a resetting crushing trap in an old tomb? You could disable it, but you could also perhaps use it and lure those skeletons to come after you and watch as the trap does the work.

CR is a measure of deadliness vs character stats and abilities only. Player ability and cleverness can sometimes enable PCs to achieve victory against encounters that they should be defeated by strictly by the numbers.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
When it comes to encounter deadliness, there is more to consider than just CR and XP numbers, at least to old school DMs who are accustomed to factors such as morale, and intelligence/organization.

On one hand, skeletons are relentless, and never break morale. They fight to the bitter end and are never intimidated. They cannot be parleyed with nor bribed. This makes them a bit more dangerous than an equal number of goblins of the same CR.

On the other hand, skeletons are dumb and fight without regard to self preservation. They will march straight into prepared traps and not flinch even as they watch fellow skeletons get ground into meal doing exactly what they are about to do. Skeletons will not run to raise the alarm or go get reinforcements. This makes them a bit easier to deal with than an equal number of goblins of the same CR.

Environment also matters. The world is not a featureless white room in which every encounter is a simple math vs math exchange. The world the combat is taking place in should matter and have an impact on how things play out. So you have discovered a resetting crushing trap in an old tomb? You could disable it, but you could also perhaps use it and lure those skeletons to come after you and watch as the trap does the work.

CR is a measure of deadliness vs character stats and abilities only. Player ability and cleverness can sometimes enable PCs to achieve victory against encounters that they should be defeated by strictly by the numbers.


Sometimes I wonder if the design team reads some of these threads re: CR and encounter building and just scream at their monitor, "Guidelines! GUIDELINES! The CR tables are just guidelines people!" :)

They also address part of this on page 84 I think, about environment, etc.

Personally, I agree with you and I think those things you mention carry more weight to how challenging an encounter is over CR. Heck, in my superdungeon, I have a clan of kobolds that will probably be encountered around level 5-6. Go ahead and think they will be a pushover because by the book, it's a super easy encounter. I dare you.
 

aramis erak

Legend
On one hand, skeletons are relentless, and never break morale. They fight to the bitter end and are never intimidated. They cannot be parleyed with nor bribed. This makes them a bit more dangerous than an equal number of goblins of the same CR.
Great fun can be had, and not a little comic relief, when a skeleton or other "mindless automaton" surrenders or otherwise indicates it's not as mindless as it should be.
 


Remove ads

Top