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D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Min/Maxed Two-Handed Weapon Damage Machine with the flavor of a Samurai

nimisgod

LEW Judge
IMHO, Musashi wasn't exactly the best swordsman. He was the goddamn sneakiest one. Read his book, he tells you to employ all these tricks just to survive.

Does that make him a warrior that lives to tell the tale, damn right. Does that make him the best swordsman to live? Matter of opinion.

So IMO, just make him part rogue and bluff a lot
 

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I guess that I entitled this thread poorly, since we can't seem to get past the recreation of Musashi and not the creation of a character with the flavor of Musashi that is MIN/MAXed. :confused:
 

Caliber

Explorer
A few thoughts. If you're taking Combat Reflexes you should take Expert Tactician. A free attack is nothing to sneeze at, and it opens up plenty of uber combos.

Why Mounted Combat and Mounter Archer (Katana???)

If your character is taking these simply be cause of the Mushashi angle fine ... but I'm sure their are other feats that are more beneficial.

Make sure to pick up an Animated Shield for extra AC, so you can use your sword two-handed to dish out the damage. As obviously, since in 3.5 I think two-handed weapons will begin using 2x Str mod on damage, start upping that Str as fast as you can.
 

Mike Sullivan

First Post
Caliber said:
Make sure to pick up an Animated Shield for extra AC, so you can use your sword two-handed to dish out the damage. As obviously, since in 3.5 I think two-handed weapons will begin using 2x Str mod on damage, start upping that Str as fast as you can.

No they won't. They'll still use 1.5*Str bonus damage. Power Attack damage bonuses will be doubled for two-handed weapons.
 

Shard O'Glase

First Post
I know very little abou the person your getting inspiration from so I'll go with he's good with a sword.

Your build looks fine so far, but I'll look at my books when I get home. Fighters get so many feats I find them harder to min/max from memory.

Unless you have some burning need to get weapon master, you might want to ditch the whirlwind chain, and pick up some rogue levels. You don't lose much but you can gain a lot. I don't know your group but chances are others will be in melee and a few extra dice in damage whenever you flank isn't bad, evasion and uncanny dodge aren't bad, and the skills always come in handy. f you can sneak up on your foes your very liekly to handle them more efficiently.
 


Elder-Basilisk

First Post
Are you using any of the 3.5e feats and rules?

If you are, I would forget about taking Weapon Master (2 or 3 levels don't really get you much) and take Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapons Specialization in place of the weapon masters' prerequisites.

So, my recommended list would look like this:

1st Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana); Weapon Focus (Katana); Power Attack

2nd Cleave

3rd Improved Initiative

4th Weapon Specialization (Katana)

5th

6th Mounted Combat; Mounted Archery

Master Samurai for 4 levels:

7th Tumble +2; Great Cleave

8th Blades of Fury; Supreme Cleve

9th Supreme Mobility; Improved Critical

10th Blades of Death

Then back to Fighter for another 10 levels:

11th

12th Combat Reflexes; Expertise (By now I hope to have a Headband of Intellect +2, if not I will take it from the wizard while he sleeps)

13th

14th Greater Weapon Focus

15th Dodge (Ordinarily I wouldn't recommend Dodge but the benefits it offers are better the higher your AC is. Since you're taking Expertise, it may be advantageous to you--it's also a prerequisite for Spring Attack which is very useful against foes you don't want to take full attacks from) or Expert Tactician (if you don't want Spring Attack)

16th Greater Weapon Specialization

17th

18th Mobility, Spring Attack or Close Quarters Fighting (if your DM uses 3.0 or allows it to work against 3.5e improved grapple) and either Improved Feint (3.5--but only if your DM lets it grant an Expert Tactician Attack) or Improved Trip (3.5--it's good to have options) or Iron Will or Blindfight

19th

20th Whirlwind Attack, Blindfight or Quickdraw (useful to get that round 1 full attack)

WRT stats, I'm not exactly sure what you're going for. Str 18 is excellent but Dex 17 seems excessive if you plan on wearing any kind of real armor. Assuming you'll eventually get gloves of Dexterity +6, there's no advantage to more than a 16 dex if you'll wear a mithral chain shirt and no advantage to more than a 14 dex if you'll wear a mithral breastplate. If you're going for mithral fullplate or banded mail (for the samurai image), you could make do with a 10 or 11. Now, you need dex 13+ for some of your feats so I would recommend simply switching your dex and con scores and going for the mithral breastplate armor.

Equipment:
To get ASAP:
Weapon: +5 Holy adamantium Katana (adamantium to avoid sunders and 3.5e DR, Holy for the same reason, +5 for the attack and damage bonus)
Cloak or vest of Resistance +5: Saving throws are one of your weaknesses cover them as best you can. (If you get a vest of resistance, you can use the cloak slot for a cloak of displacement).
Armor: +5 mithral breastplate
Shield: +5 animated shield
Ring of Protection +5
Amulet of Natural Armor +5
Belt of Giant Strength +6
Gloves of Dexterity +6
Bracers of Health +6
Headband of Intellect +2 (The sooner you get it the sooner you can start spending the additional skill points)

Vis a vis the Ftr 4/Bbn 16 with a greatsword and the same stats:

A. Damage- his weapon does an average of 1.5 points more than yours and when he is raging, he'll gain an additional +3 to hit and +5 to damage.

You, on the other hand will get double your strength bonus to damage. Assuming 30 strength for you, that adds up to an additional 5 points cancelling out his bonus from Rage. You may also have greater weapon specialization which will kick in another two points putting you .5 above him in average damage/hit. He'll still have an attack bonus two points better than you will (even with greater weapon specialization though). On damage, you're comparable but he's slightly ahead.

B. Armor Class. Assuming similar equipment, your AC will be two points better than his when he's raging. You'll also have the option to increase your AC through Expertise--which will probably add 3 or 4 rounds to your life expectancy against a creature like the 3.5e Titan. That will probably enable you to deal more damage over the long run. In a one on one battle you could also use expertise and fight defensively--pushing your AC up to 51 where even his primary attack would have less than a 50% chance of hitting you (before the cloak of displacement is taken into account).

Against weaker monsters where expertise is not significant, you will also have Supreme Cleave which will enable you to take out more bad guys per round. More significantly, it will enable you to take cleave attacks with less risk. The barbarian may often find himself in a situation where he needs to put himself into a flank or other disadvantageous situation in order for it to be possible for him to cleave. You, OTOH can stay out of the flank and five foot step in order to cleave.

C. Other Defense: The fighter/barbarian will have Uncanny Dodge. You, OTOH, will have a much easier time avoiding AoOs. You also have the potential to get Blindfight, Close Quarters Fighting, Iron Will, and other defensive feats at a much lower opportunity cost than the barbarian.

D. Options: Due to your greater number of feats, you will have a lot more options in a fight and, in a situation where mounted combat is an option, you will be much better than the fighter/barbarian.
 

Ranger REG

Explorer
Jeremy said:

Was Musashi the wierd guy who used both the katana and wakizashi while fighting? Or was that someone else?

Because if so, there are a large number of Dragon feats (the clan in OA, not the magazine) that would work well.
Not to mention the Niten Master prestige class, but that is heavily flavored for the Dragon clan and not for others (part of that PrC ability includes aiding shugenja).

I don't know if he's the best swordsman but he is famous, mainly for what he wrote that later became a businessman's bible in Japan.
 
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Caliber said:
A few thoughts. If you're taking Combat Reflexes you should take Expert Tactician. A free attack is nothing to sneeze at, and it opens up plenty of uber combos.

Why Mounted Combat and Mounter Archer?

It is a prerequesite for Master Smaurai. (I removed Katana)

If your character is taking these simply be cause of the Mushashi angle fine ... but I'm sure their are other feats that are more beneficial.

Make sure to pick up an Animated Shield for extra AC, so you can use your sword two-handed to dish out the damage. As obviously, since in 3.5 I think two-handed weapons will begin using 2x Str mod on damage, start upping that Str as fast as you can.

That is the plan. :D

Originally posted by Shard O'Glase
I know very little abou the person your getting inspiration from so I'll go with he's good with a sword.

Your build looks fine so far, but I'll look at my books when I get home. Fighters get so many feats I find them harder to min/max from memory.

Unless you have some burning need to get weapon master, you might want to ditch the whirlwind chain, and pick up some rogue levels. You don't lose much but you can gain a lot. I don't know your group but chances are others will be in melee and a few extra dice in damage whenever you flank isn't bad, evasion and uncanny dodge aren't bad, and the skills always come in handy. f you can sneak up on your foes your very liekly to handle them more efficiently.

Unlike others image of Musashi as dishonorable, I would like to make my Musashi follow honor and Bushido. So, Rogue, although a good suggestion for min/maxing doesn't fit for me.

As for Weapon Master, I guess you and Shard O'Glase are right. I guess I won't be going on to that PrC. :(

Originally posted by Elder-Basilisk
Are you using any of the 3.5e feats and rules?


Yes

If you are, I would forget about taking Weapon Master (2 or 3 levels don't really get you much) and take Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapons Specialization in place of the weapon masters' prerequisites.

Are Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Specialization really that good?

So, my recommended list would look like this:

1st Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana); Weapon Focus (Katana); Power Attack

2nd Cleave

3rd Improved Initiative

4th Weapon Specialization (Katana)

5th

6th Mounted Combat; Mounted Archery

Master Samurai for 4 levels:

7th Tumble +2; Great Cleave

8th Blades of Fury; Supreme Cleve

9th Supreme Mobility; Improved Critical

10th Blades of Death

Then back to Fighter for another 10 levels:

11th

12th Combat Reflexes; Expertise (By now I hope to have a Headband of Intellect +2, if not I will take it from the wizard while he sleeps)

13th

14th Greater Weapon Focus

15th Dodge (Ordinarily I wouldn't recommend Dodge but the benefits it offers are better the higher your AC is. Since you're taking Expertise, it may be advantageous to you--it's also a prerequisite for Spring Attack which is very useful against foes you don't want to take full attacks from) or Expert Tactician (if you don't want Spring Attack)

16th Greater Weapon Specialization

17th

18th Mobility, Spring Attack or Close Quarters Fighting (if your DM uses 3.0 or allows it to work against 3.5e improved grapple) and either Improved Feint (3.5--but only if your DM lets it grant an Expert Tactician Attack) or Improved Trip (3.5--it's good to have options) or Iron Will or Blindfight

19th

20th Whirlwind Attack, Blindfight or Quickdraw (useful to get that round 1 full attack)


I guess I will have to do some more reading about other feats as well as SMETZGER's POLLS.

WRT stats, I'm not exactly sure what you're going for. Str 18 is excellent but Dex 17 seems excessive if you plan on wearing any kind of real armor. Assuming you'll eventually get gloves of Dexterity +6, there's no advantage to more than a 16 dex if you'll wear a mithral chain shirt and no advantage to more than a 14 dex if you'll wear a mithral breastplate. If you're going for mithral fullplate or banded mail (for the samurai image), you could make do with a 10 or 11. Now, you need dex 13+ for some of your feats so I would recommend simply switching your dex and con scores and going for the mithral breastplate armor.

Equipment:
To get ASAP:
Weapon: +5 Holy adamantium Katana (adamantium to avoid sunders and 3.5e DR, Holy for the same reason, +5 for the attack and damage bonus)
Cloak or vest of Resistance +5: Saving throws are one of your weaknesses cover them as best you can. (If you get a vest of resistance, you can use the cloak slot for a cloak of displacement).
Armor: +5 mithral breastplate
Shield: +5 animated shield
Ring of Protection +5
Amulet of Natural Armor +5
Belt of Giant Strength +6
Gloves of Dexterity +6
Bracers of Health +6
Headband of Intellect +2 (The sooner you get it the sooner you can start spending the additional skill points)

Vis a vis the Ftr 4/Bbn 16 with a greatsword and the same stats:

A. Damage- his weapon does an average of 1.5 points more than yours and when he is raging, he'll gain an additional +3 to hit and +5 to damage.

You, on the other hand will get double your strength bonus to damage. Assuming 30 strength for you, that adds up to an additional 5 points cancelling out his bonus from Rage. You may also have greater weapon specialization which will kick in another two points putting you .5 above him in average damage/hit. He'll still have an attack bonus two points better than you will (even with greater weapon specialization though). On damage, you're comparable but he's slightly ahead.

B. Armor Class. Assuming similar equipment, your AC will be two points better than his when he's raging. You'll also have the option to increase your AC through Expertise--which will probably add 3 or 4 rounds to your life expectancy against a creature like the 3.5e Titan. That will probably enable you to deal more damage over the long run. In a one on one battle you could also use expertise and fight defensively--pushing your AC up to 51 where even his primary attack would have less than a 50% chance of hitting you (before the cloak of displacement is taken into account).

Against weaker monsters where expertise is not significant, you will also have Supreme Cleave which will enable you to take out more bad guys per round. More significantly, it will enable you to take cleave attacks with less risk. The barbarian may often find himself in a situation where he needs to put himself into a flank or other disadvantageous situation in order for it to be possible for him to cleave. You, OTOH can stay out of the flank and five foot step in order to cleave.

C. Other Defense: The fighter/barbarian will have Uncanny Dodge. You, OTOH, will have a much easier time avoiding AoOs. You also have the potential to get Blindfight, Close Quarters Fighting, Iron Will, and other defensive feats at a much lower opportunity cost than the barbarian.

D. Options: Due to your greater number of feats, you will have a lot more options in a fight and, in a situation where mounted combat is an option, you will be much better than the fighter/barbarian.

Wow, you are thorough. :D You gave me a lot to think about.
 

Hjorimir

Adventurer
Yes, Musashi definately developed dual-wielding for the Samurai class (social class, not D&D class).

He would have heavy skills in intimidate, bluff, and sense motive. He really knew how to judge his opponents. If you can, find the story on how he killed a guy with a carve boat ore in a dual (not even bringing his katana) to understand the depth of his ability to defeat somebody before the fight even starts.
 

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