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[Hussar]

I've used Fantasy Grounds, Foundry, and Owlbear Rodeo; of the three I found Owlbear Rodeo to be the most intuitive, but it's not really what I'm looking for.

Specifically, I'm not looking for something that rolls all the dice for me and knows all the rules. What I really need is a VTT where I can import a map graphic, specify the scale, trace the "walls" (bonus points if the software can figure this out for me), then drop PC tokens on the map with light sources, add other light sources as I desire, and let the VTT calculate Fog of War based on the light sources and walls/doors so I don't have to manually track what the PCs can see, un-fog things myself, etc.

Maybe also help me track PC and monster AC and HP (but don't show the players). Perhaps also spell effect templates (I don't need animations per se). But really, that's about it... something that is really good at Fog of War and super-easy to use for that.

While I am certainly no cheerleader for Fantasy Grounds, I would point out that FG will do all of this quite well. You certainly are free to ignore the die rolling and automation. But, as far as Line of Sight, lighting and Fog of War, I would say that FG will do that very well.

By the same token, if that's all you're looking for, try Maptool. It's a bit long in the tooth, but, it will certainly cover all of that, and for free.

 

[Distracted DM]

I've used Fantasy Grounds, Foundry, and Owlbear Rodeo; of the three I found Owlbear Rodeo to be the most intuitive, but it's not really what I'm looking for.

Specifically, I'm not looking for something that rolls all the dice for me and knows all the rules. What I really need is a VTT where I can import a map graphic, specify the scale, trace the "walls" (bonus points if the software can figure this out for me), then drop PC tokens on the map with light sources, add other light sources as I desire, and let the VTT calculate Fog of War based on the light sources and walls/doors so I don't have to manually track what the PCs can see, un-fog things myself, etc.

Maybe also help me track PC and monster AC and HP (but don't show the players). Perhaps also spell effect templates (I don't need animations per se). But really, that's about it... something that is really good at Fog of War and super-easy to use for that.

I do all of this with Foundry- is it lack of intuitiveness that didn't make you click with it? I usually have issues with steep learning curves but Foundry let me do it piece by piece with modules etc as I found them.

 

[Distracted DM]

Going rate seems closer to $40 per person, per session. A DM who builds a reputation might be able to charge more.

Four players per session . . . four hour session . . . about $40 per hour of live gaming, not including prep time. Even better if you are running games for larger groups.

You're not going to get rich, but I can see how some folks who really enjoy this kind of work and are good at it, can make a decent living in areas with reasonable cost-of-living.

Seems like for a lot of DM's this makes for a fun and decently paying side gig. And in this economy, side gigs are becoming more and more of a necessity, sadly.

The average cost per seat per session on SPG is ~$20 (I think closer to $24 nowadays but don't quote me). Figure that most games require 3 players to run, and cap out at 5 or 6. Personally I don't like going higher than 5 because I feel like it detracts from the enjoyment.

Folk like myself that are fortunate enough to have accrued enough players that value our services enough to justify $40 or more are, AFAIK, less common. I think it's largely a matter of luck: the right players finding the right GMs for them, and obviously different demographics etc.

There are GMs out there that charge $50 or more, but I only know of a couple that have success with it. As you've said, cost of living area etc will affect it being doable for a living or a side gig for extra $$.

 

[Juxtapozbliss]

I do all of this with Foundry- is it lack of intuitiveness that didn't make you click with it? I usually have issues with steep learning curves but Foundry let me do it piece by piece with modules etc as I found them.

I was about to say the same thing. I do all the things he asks for in Foundry.

I've used Fantasy Grounds, Foundry, and Owlbear Rodeo; of the three I found Owlbear Rodeo to be the most intuitive, but it's not really what I'm looking for.

Specifically, I'm not looking for something that rolls all the dice for me and knows all the rules. What I really need is a VTT where I can import a map graphic, specify the scale, trace the "walls" (bonus points if the software can figure this out for me), then drop PC tokens on the map with light sources, add other light sources as I desire, and let the VTT calculate Fog of War based on the light sources and walls/doors so I don't have to manually track what the PCs can see, un-fog things myself, etc.

Maybe also help me track PC and monster AC and HP (but don't show the players). Perhaps also spell effect templates (I don't need animations per se). But really, that's about it... something that is really good at Fog of War and super-easy to use for that.

I suggest you start a new thread on this topic so as not to derail this one. Since several of us do all these things in Foundry without difficulty, we need to better understand what is lacking for you to give any advice.

 

[MNblockhead]

If I could find an intuitive VTT I might consider it, but having tried several VTTs I have yet to find one I find intuitive.

And I work on computers for a living and host an MMORPG I coded from scratch (my interface isn’t intuitive either - intuitive interfaces are HARD).

Really depends on the systems you are interested in running. If you are playing a system that doesn't rely on exact positioning, distance measuring, or line of sight...or are running a more ToTM, you can just use Zoom, Google Meet, MS Teams, etc.

I also like to recommend Role. Role - The easiest place to play and create any TTRPG. It is a video-conferencing platform for gaming. It prioritizes a solid voice and video experience, followed by a customizable character sheet and dice rolling. It also offers a very simple battle map function when you want to drop some tokens to just have an idea of positions and distance in a combat (more of a digital chessex map than a what most people think of as a VTT). But it is simple with almost no learning curve. The only technical learning curve is if you want to design or customize character sheets. But even building character sheets has a pretty user friendly interface. I used it when I was trying to run a Mage the Ascension game. The game fell apart because I just didn't like the WoD game system and didn't have the time to run a second campaign in addition to my D&D campaign. But Role worked very well for running that game.

If I ever get around to making my own system from Cortex Prime, I would run it in Role.

For games like D&D and Warhammer, I prefer a full-featured VTT. I don't run combat in those systems TotM. But for those who do, Role would be worth checking out (at least D&D, for Warhammer, its a crunchy system and the Foundry VTT WFRP 4e implementation just makes it easier to run.

 

[MNblockhead]

It's basically pocket money unless you can charge towards the higher end.

Your not going to be able to DM 40 hours a week and 30 hours os probably pushing it with burnout and voice.

Yeah, I would think so. I think those who make enough money to make it a full-time job are also live streaming on twitch, running Patreons, and selling VTT assets among other adjacent activities.

 

[MNblockhead]

I'm by no means a deeply experienced DM on SPG, but I did have a similar experience. I have run so far in total 23 paid game session through SPG. I started running them early summer of 2023. But I actually signed up in March! Initially I was opening up multiple campaigns on Mondays, Tuesdays, Weds, Thursday and Sundays. I was unemployed for part of last year so it was a great way to try to squeeze out a little money to make things a bit easier. Without having reviews on the site and no "run games" yet, it took several months before i even had one sign up. Then I had one sign up, then another, then quickly hit 4 then 5 people in one campaign. Then a second campaign took off, and I was running two at the same time. I started collecting positive reviews on the site. (I now have 14 great reviews.)

What I found was that it was really hard to keep a campaign going indefinitely. After like 4 or 5 weeks of a full team...someone would have a schedule or life change, and they'd have to drop out. Sometimes a new person would sign up to replace them, but not very quickly...a lot of people don't want to join a game that has already run 8 sessions into the campaign--they like to start at the beginning. And once one person dropped, it seemed to become a cascade every time. Both those campaigns fell apart just as a third one was taking off. My third campaign lasted about 8 sessions and then it dropped again like the others to only 2 players so I put it on hold but kept it listed on the site. My players were fine with that--they wanted to keep playing with me but not with only 2 players. Then I got a job in September so I de-listed my weekday games, but I still kept my Sunday campaign floating on the site. Then out of the blue, a new person joined. And then another. And then another. All of a sudden I had 5 players and started up again a couple months ago.

For the average DM, even a good one, it's hard to get the momentum going to keep up a campaign. Some of the top DMs have a pretty big Discord following, and they even have waiting lists. But those folks are few and far between. That said, I think if you stick with it and don't get discouraged, and run a good game...as you build up a history there and good reviews, it becomes a bit easier to get players to sign up.

I'm guessing this is one reason I'm seeing more and more DM groups. Bascially, I'm seeing a group of DMs who join together. They'll run a Discord together and may share other resources. They can fill in for each other and ensure more available time slots. I can see how DMs who are new to this would benefit from teaming up with DMs who are already well established. Because I'm mainly interested in pick-me-up one shots, I'm always focused on the individual DM. But I can see how other players are more interested in joining a community organized by self-selecting DMs with a well-curated set of offerings. Some of these groups seem to use Start Playing as an additional storefront but seem to have separate payment and game organization options for their invested players. Not sure how this works with Start Playings T&Cs.

 

[MNblockhead]

Hey, I think I'm almost at this from the opposite end. I'd love to play, but am happy Dming. I would love to have a reliable schedule for an extended campaign -or even do the paid gig-. However, the best I can do time-wise is maybe one shots on short notice and I'm not sure if anybody can be up for these conditions.

Edit: to clarify, I think I'd be up for running the occasional one-shot, but the best I can do is on short notice and I have failed in the past to recruit people on time for such a thing.

Well, if you run any more obscure systems, PM me. Always looking to try a new game. My schedule is insane right now, but maybe the stars will align.

 

[MNblockhead]

Yeah, this is pretty much exactly my experience. Funny thing is, I got a 5 player game off the ground in like two weeks after signing up. It was an instant thing. Fantastic. But, I think that it made my expectations very unrealistic when it then fell apart after about 8 sessions. I figured, "Hey, I got this first game up and going right away, so, it must be easy right?" Then it was weeks and weeks of nothing.

Now another job has kinda eaten up my free time, which means that I haven't tried to get anything going again in quite a while. But, that aside, I do highly recommend the service. Payment was easy peasy, scheduling and whatnot was super easy. From a sort of side-gig standpoint, it's not a bad way to support your hobby.

But, like you say, once the game gets off the ground, it seems that it's nearly impossible to add in new players after a few sessions.

Did you only use Start Playing? The Roll20 find-a-player service is also worth looking at, especially if you already use Roll20.

 

[MNblockhead]

I've used Fantasy Grounds, Foundry, and Owlbear Rodeo; of the three I found Owlbear Rodeo to be the most intuitive, but it's not really what I'm looking for.

Specifically, I'm not looking for something that rolls all the dice for me and knows all the rules. What I really need is a VTT where I can import a map graphic, specify the scale, trace the "walls" (bonus points if the software can figure this out for me), then drop PC tokens on the map with light sources, add other light sources as I desire, and let the VTT calculate Fog of War based on the light sources and walls/doors so I don't have to manually track what the PCs can see, un-fog things myself, etc.

Maybe also help me track PC and monster AC and HP (but don't show the players). Perhaps also spell effect templates (I don't need animations per se). But really, that's about it... something that is really good at Fog of War and super-easy to use for that.

D&D Beyond Maps seems perfect for you.

But you can also use Foundry in this way. I gave up on trying to get Foundry to automate things correctly with D&D. Maybe now that they are developing licensed version of the D&D game system it improve. For everything you list though, Foundry handles it all out of the bog brilliantly. You might want to use some mods to hide some things from the players--depends on the systems and setup.

I would think Foundry with just a couple mods would be ideal for you. You'll want Dice So Nice and maybe Combat Carousel and Dice Tray. There are various mods to better keep information hidden from the players but it has been a while since I've compared the out of the box settings to the various mods and I'm not exactly sure what you want hidden and how. If you start a new thread and post exactly how you would like things to work, I (and others) can make more targeted suggestions for how to set up Foundry (or Fantasy Grounds or Roll20).