• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

Level Up (A5E) What is the true "value" of improved vision types & replacements

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Darkvision
1597958616593.png

regardless of how you value it, d&d has always placed some value on it with regards to having darkvision vrs not having it even if that value is "this race is already really good so normal vision". At the table darkvision is less than useful if you aren't a rogue or something going off sneaking. Every description in a published adventure is written for normal vision &
the number of times you hear something like "well yea because of your darkvision, you look through the brambles & see the obvious baddie" is going to be approaching zero compared to "roll perception" after a player points out they have darkvision. In the past there were all kinds of darkvision, lowlght vision, infravision, low light vision, & so many more niche ones like blindsight & life sight but having one for everyone but the sneaky scout meant that you played the game exactly like the darkblind human who needed a torch because the whole party is hurt if they abandon bob back there in the dark. In a sense some of this can be blamed on the fact that most writers are human, but even when you had races with the scent ability you had an ability that was basically no use if you weren't the scout/tracker & as a result your other abilities were balanced against having something that's mainly going to make a diffeernce when there is enough of a stench in the air to hinder the elf/human/etc lacking that ability.

Alternate vision types don't need to be that way though, for example:
  • Darkvision: You can see in darkness better than humans & other diurnal races. You are capable of using a goodlight & all normal light sources have double the range for you
    • Goodlight(s): These magical lightsources come in many forms & races with darkvision or improved darkvision will claim they shed light from 5-30 feet. Once clipped to their armor or attached to a cave wall & activated, all others without darkvision will require a dc15 perception check to tell if a specific goodlight they are inspecting is activated or not. Right away everyone with darkvision has a real and tangible benefit both in the role of scout/tracker as well as a minor benefit in standard combat where the gm wants to use light & shadow.
  • Life Sense: You are able to see the aura of people's souls & have greater control over your own. This grants benefits when dealing with others as the soul typically reflects intent & disposition. When dealing with others who lack this sense you are considered to be proficient with insight & deception through both watching the fluctuations in their soul as well as actively using your own to emit a false sense of things like honesty truthfulness or even fear,
  • Heart Sense:Much like a shark, you have a special organ or magical sense that allows you to sense the heartbeat of living creatures within 100 feet provided their are no obstructions. like a door or wall. For purposes of detecting living creatures you are always considered sighted & proficient in perception
    • Heart Guarded: This minor enchantment is often added to the armor of scouts & bandits to block their presence from Heart Sense, but wearing such armor tends to cause such feelings of wrongness & dishonesty that it almost always includes a verbal component to activate and deactivate as beings with heart sense will often refuse to speak on friendly terms with a heart guarded individual while the enchantment is active
  • Magic Sense: Mana, magicules, spiritual pressure, ki.. There are many names for it, but you can see it plain as a torch light. You can automatically detect the presence of magical auras present in magic items at a glance & can see when an individual is affected by a spell but gain no insight into what sort of magic you are seeing without further training & the use of relevant skills.
  • Health sense:Although not as precise as some would have others believe, you are able to sense injuries in others at a glance & with more effort can roughly estimate the health of one individual compared to another by spending a full round looking.
    • Yes it's a magic sense. that allows you to magically estimate if bob has more hit points than that ogre or not & tell at a glance "hey bob how you doing for health?"
  • Others: ????
All of these have a use outside of combat that makes Alice feel different than Bob & quite a few have benefits that extend into combat/dungeon crawl type play regardless of your role
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Zaukrie

New Publisher
This is a tough one......which I don't know how to "fix". But, really, torches suck and aren't as good as the game presents....anyway, this might be an interesting design topic, but I'm not sure Level Up should tackle it. Much like the "gold" problem, it is a problem but I'm not sure it is enough of one for Level Up to fix it.
 


G

Guest 6801328

Guest
The OP's suggestions are colorful but too complex. Here's what I'd do:
  • Actual, honest-to-goodness, see-in-pitch-black Darkvision would be much, much more rare and maybe even shorter range, at least for PCs.
  • In it's place, I'd let underground races (Dwarves, Gnomes) treat dim firelight (torch/lantern) as bright light, and maybe give them advantage on perception checks based on hearing while underground. Or maybe some kind of tremorsense ability they can use by spending a minute with their ear to the ground.
  • Elves (and others?) would get to treat dim outdoor light (moonlight, starlight) as bright light. And maybe a special moonlight cantrip.
 

ThatGuySteve

Explorer
Make Darkvision a species option. All the usual suspects can select it, but at the cost of not picking something else.

I'd love to see Darkvision taken away from PC species and made a monster ability. Make it rare, so special class abilities or spells which grant it are more valuable. Bring back Low-light Vision for PCs instead, treat dim light a bright light but can't see in darkness.

Don't over complicate things with loads of special senses for DMs to keep track of, or conditions like indoors vs outdoors.
 

The OP's suggestions are colorful but too complex. Here's what I'd do:
  • Actual, honest-to-goodness, see-in-pitch-black Darkvision would be much, much more rare and maybe even shorter range, at least for PCs.
  • In it's place, I'd let underground races (Dwarves, Gnomes) treat dim firelight (torch/lantern) as bright light, and maybe give them advantage on perception checks based on hearing while underground. Or maybe some kind of tremorsense ability they can use by spending a minute with their ear to the ground.
  • Elves (and others?) would get to treat dim outdoor light (moonlight, starlight) as bright light. And maybe a special moonlight cantrip.
In my setting, wood elves are normally nocturnal and have darkvision, similar to orcs who are also nocturnal. High elves normally lack it, and have magical luminosity instead, including Light or Dancing Lights.

Make Darkvision a magical cantrip. Then it is easy to swap in or out, equivalent to a skill proficiency. A human trickster-rogue seems a likely suspect to pick up the Darkvision cantrip.



I dont track illumination radiuses. Especially indoors, everything is either dark or else bright. Rare is an encounter that is dim because the only lightsource is dim.

I strongly oppose dim low light vision, because it is a waste of space on the character sheet. I refuse to track radiuses as they are currently. Compare incumbrance: low light vision is like a +10 pound bonus to carrying capacity. It never gets used during gameplay.

That said, choosing between a Darkvision cantrip and some other feature is fine.



Changes to Darkvision? Brainstorming:
• Important: standardize all lighting radiuses to mind-theater-friendly 10 meters (30 feet, close, move, throw) or 300 meters (1000 feet, bowshot). ...
• ... Maybe then I might actually bother to track it.
• Darkvision is a magical ability, requires absolute darkness, is only black-and-white, and any light even DIM LIGHT SPOILS IT.
• Make "Shadowvision" for any "shadowy" lightly-obscured (whether dim or foggy), that reduces vision, where hiding is possible.
• This "Shadowvision" extends indefinitely without any limit on radius, wherever there is dim illumination.
• Some dark-dwelling creatures have both Darkvision and "Shadowvision", so when dimlight spoils the Darkvision, the "Shadowvision" kicks in.
• Brightvision is a thing. All humans have Brightvision. To lack Brightvision is the same thing as to suffer sensitivity to bright light, like drow do.
• Drow have Darkvision and Shadowvision but lack Brightvision.
• Darkvision is a magical cantrip, Brightvision and Shadowvision are often natural.
• Orcs and wood elves are nocturnal, with Shadowvision naturally, but also happen to use the Darkvision as a cultural training, similar to literacy.
• High elves have Brightvision only, same as humans.
• Hill dwarves have shadowvision, deep dwarves darvision and shadowvision.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
The value of ONE character having darkvision is negligible. Price it (for balance reasons) as a ribbon (flavor) ability.

The value of ALL characters having darkvision is huge. Suddenly the party no longer needs to travel using light.
 

I think 5e's streamlining of all the various senses of past editions is great. For something that generally gets handwaived with "does anyone have a light source? Yes, great, moving on" I don't see a huge ROI for stuff like the old infravision, ultravision, low-light vision, and whatnot.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
In my setting, wood elves are normally nocturnal and have darkvision, similar to orcs who are also nocturnal. High elves normally lack it, and have magical luminosity instead, including Light or Dancing Lights.

Make Darkvision a magical cantrip. Then it is easy to swap in or out, equivalent to a skill proficiency. A human trickster-rogue seems a likely suspect to pick up the Darkvision cantrip.



I dont track illumination radiuses. Especially indoors, everything is either dark or else bright. Rare is an encounter that is dim because the only lightsource is dim.

I strongly oppose dim low light vision, because it is a waste of space on the character sheet. I refuse to track radiuses as they are currently. Compare incumbrance: low light vision is like a +10 pound bonus to carrying capacity. It never gets used during gameplay.

That said, choosing between a Darkvision cantrip and some other feature is fine.



Changes to Darkvision? Brainstorming:
• Important: standardize all lighting radiuses to mind-theater-friendly 10 meters (30 feet, close, move, throw) or 300 meters (1000 feet, bowshot). ...
• ... Maybe then I might actually bother to track it.
• Darkvision is a magical ability, requires absolute darkness, is only black-and-white, and any light even DIM LIGHT SPOILS IT.
• Make "Shadowvision" for any "shadowy" lightly-obscured (whether dim or foggy), that reduces vision, where hiding is possible.
• This "Shadowvision" extends indefinitely without any limit on radius, wherever there is dim illumination.
• Some dark-dwelling creatures have both Darkvision and "Shadowvision", so when dimlight spoils the Darkvision, the "Shadowvision" kicks in.
• Brightvision is a thing. All humans have Brightvision. To lack Brightvision is the same thing as to suffer sensitivity to bright light, like drow do.
• Drow have Darkvision and Shadowvision but lack Brightvision.
• Darkvision is a magical cantrip, Brightvision and Shadowvision are often natural.
• Orcs and wood elves are nocturnal, with Shadowvision naturally, but also happen to use the Darkvision as a cultural training, similar to literacy.
• High elves have Brightvision only, same as humans.
• Hill dwarves have shadowvision, deep dwarves darvision and shadowvision.

I use a tvbox with a local vtt (specifically arkenforge) so can track fog of war darkness & light automatically & just turn on lights for people holding them or do other stuff when they have darkvision. It really adds an interesting dimension to the fight when the human can't just blindly move towards the square their pc sees badies standing in when the group wants to be stealthy & is using goodlights. The default light ranges are made to be easy to track on a battlemat where it gets ignored, more importantly they are made to make the darkblind human feel something from being in the dark & there are no lightsources that cater to races with darkvision. Goodlight's came from a mention of being useless for the humans in an eberron novel so I made up some mechanics to fit being useful to darkvision having races with them & thinking about it your right that lightsource ranges need ranges than work for conditions like that
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
I would go simple and have just:

Darkvision
Superior Darkvison (which comes with sunlight blindness)
Low Light vision/Elf-vision (see better in low light and bright light)
"Heat Vision" (can see living beings and heat sources in darkness)

Only the underground and truly nocturnal races should get darkvision. And only purely underground or Underdark races get the superior version.

All the rest should get "low light" and have to hold torches or cast light in complete darkness.
 

Remove ads

Top