D&D 4E What do you want in 4E, defense and DR or straight AC?

[Cougar]

Well, what would you prefer in 4e? Class based defense bonuses and armor that provides damage reduction? Or would you prefer to stick with the good ole AC system? Why?

Obviously there would be a whole host of changes to the system if Defense and DR were added. Things such as spells, monsters, feats, and equipment would need to be changed to reflect the lack of AC. That is why I slated it for 4E. I am talking a complete overhaul here, with AC a fond (or not so fond) memory.

Anyone not familiar with the Defense/DR system, it works like this: a character class grants a Defense bonus to the PC which starts with a base of 10. This bonus goes up as the PC levels. Armor when worn provides no "to hit" protection, but does provide DR when the PC is struck. Characters with a high Defense can't take advantage of the higher DR armors.

For instance a Dragon would have an incredible Defense, say +10 and his scales would give him a DR of -/5 (just arbirtary numbers here, sorry). In this kind of system you would really need VP and WP, although Wheel of Time does pretty well without it.


I would much prefer the defense/DR combo. It works so well with the WP/VP system. But that's another poll....

 

[Crothian]

Um, what other changes are you assuming? Going to another edition would be a slightly larger change then this one minor detail. Also, how does the defense bonus and Armor DR work for creatures? Will they get DR instead of Natural armor?

I need more information to answer this.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

i thought we decided that Who's Line is It Anyway? is diceless 4th edition D&D (with Drew Carey as DM)

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

I figure we got another 120 issues of Dargon until 4E comes out. I hope.

 

[RangerWickett]

I wouldn't give a class-based AC bonus, but I would prefer armor to provide damage reduction.

Here's my beef. Right now, hit points and AC both represent the same thing sometimes. If you have a deflection bonus to AC, or a shield that deflects an attack, you take no hit point damage. However, if you are hit, but have 100 hit points, then the 'hit' probably means that you ducked or swerved, so you weren't actually hit.

I'd prefer if things were clarified a little.

A. Your hit points represent your stamina to keep dodging and fighting. A miss means your foe just attacked badly. A hit that is stopped by armor means that your foe hit, but you were able to use your armor to protect yourself. A hit that does hit point damage means that you had to exert yourself a little or a lot to avoid an actual injury. Hit point damage never represents real injuries; at worst, it might be a small scrape, cut, or bump.

B. Your wound points represent your physical health. Once you run out of hit points, you start losing wound points. Certain rare spells also deal wound point damage, but unlike the Star Wars system, critical hits don't do WP damage.

C. Your Defense determines how well you can defend yourself passively. High Dex, deflection bonus to Defense, etc. The higher your Defense, the faster you move, duck, and weave. If your attack roll misses, it means you just missed badly. If you beat your foe's Defense, it means you get a good hit in, that weakens your foe at least a little.

D. Armor provides damage reduction.

Level-based defense bonus, though . . . I dunno. I don't like having both hit points and Defense increase by level. I'd prefer just one system, I think.

But then again . . .

* High Defense thanks to high level, low hit points thanks to class. You are quick to avoid combat, but you don't really have the spirit to fight. Maybe you're a bit of a coward, but you're willing to keep fighting as long as you're safe. You just don't have the will to stay in the fight.

* Low defense thanks to class, high hit points thanks to high level. You rush into combat, exerting a lot of energy to stay safe, but with enough resilience that you keep fighting even if you get a few hits.

Hmm. Maybe. But maybe whenever you level up you choose to either gain hit points or increased Defense. Interesting. . . .

 

[Crothian]

I figure we got another 120 issues of Dargon until 4E comes out. I hope.

It's already been said that in a few years we might see 3.1 so 4th is way off.

 

[Dinkeldog]

The armor DR thing, I think is a false security, thing. All it will do is overemphasize the need for Strength as a stat, while negating some classes ability to do any damage at all in combat. That and make Power Attack the uber-feat.

 

[Cougar]

I would pay for a supplement (PDF, or otherwise) that converted the rules in the SRD to use the WP/VP and Defense/DR rules. I think they work much better and go hand in hand, although as RangerWickett said, I would not have criticals affecting Wound Points.

 

[enrious]

For what it's intended to do, AC works great.

 

[Cougar]

I am not sure about that, Dinkledog. A fighter with plate might have a high DR due to his armor, but his defense would be poor. He would be hit more and take less. A finesse fighter with a high dex and a high defense can still wear some armor and get DR. He will be able to hit more and get hit less. I think it kind of balances out the fighter's ability to 'tank' at high levels with magic bonus giving them ultra-AC (battletech term, yay).