Pathfinder 1E What about compound bows?

[Puxido]

I noticed while reading ultimate equipment, there's nothing in the book about the Compound bow and compound crossbow. They are different from regular, long and composite bows, and I was wondering if anyone had thought of a way to implement them into pathfinder?

 

[Tovec]

I've always seen compound bows treated as composite bows. I know it's not perfect but that's the best ad hoc solution I've ever seen proposed that fit withing DnD rules. I don't know how accurate that relationship is, but then again both bows and guns deal 1d8 - just started with different subsystems.

Otherwise, I have no idea how you would handle them. I lack any real world knowledge to make a realistic suggestion of how an additional style of bow/crossbow would fit in with the DnD weapons as written.

 

[Puxido]

I've always seen compound bows treated as composite bows. I know it's not perfect but that's the best ad hoc solution I've ever seen proposed that fit withing DnD rules. I don't know how accurate that relationship is, but then again both bows and guns deal 1d8 - just started with different subsystems.

Otherwise, I have no idea how you would handle them. I lack any real world knowledge to make a realistic suggestion of how an additional style of bow/crossbow would fit in with the DnD weapons as written.

I understand that, but about guns. Don't bows and guns deal the same amount of damage anyway? The thing with guns is that they ignore armor a bit better than bows, and that I think is replicated in pathfinder/dnd isn't? I'm trying to understand gun rules but I think they ignore AC to a degree don't they?

 

[Tovec]

I haven't gone looking into firearms that much. When I first wrote the reply I put in "guns are 2d8" as a placeholder (as I think they were in 3.5) until I looked up firearms in pathfinder and realized the damage dice were much lower.

I'm honestly not clear on how the subsystem works exactly. I could look it up, and you should if you're interested, but I suspect it is something like ranged attack vs. touch AC - basically ignoring armor to AC. That IS a subsystem. So, model it however you think.

I don't know enough about how compound bows work compared to composite bows, regular bows, and firearms. I really don't know how to suggest or advise. My best suggestion was to use composite bows as I said last post.

Good luck.

 

[Vegepygmy]

I'm trying to understand gun rules but I think they ignore AC to a degree don't they?

Yes. At closer ranges, firearms resolve against touch AC (i.e., they ignore armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses to AC).

As for compound bows, they weren't invented until 1966 (according to the wiki I just checked), so they seem even less appropriate for D&D than firearms. If you really want to incorporate them into your game, how to do so is just a "well, how do you <I>want</I> them to work?" kind of issue.

 

[Vegepygmy]

(disregard)

 

[gamerprinter]

A compound bow is a 20th century invention, and to me, completely anachronistic for a typical D&D/PF game such that they don't belong. If you're playing a modern setting, a compound bow might fit fine. Even 6-shooter revolvers are a century older than compound bows, and most people who allow guns in the PF game, tend to limit them to single shot muskets and pistols, and not even revolvers. If a revolver is too modern for a typical game, surely a compound bow is waaaay too modern. As a GM, I wouldn't allow compound bows at my table.

 

[Puxido]

A compound bow is a 20th century invention, and to me, completely anachronistic for a typical D&D/PF game such that they don't belong. If you're playing a modern setting, a compound bow might fit fine. Even 6-shooter revolvers are a century older than compound bows, and most people who allow guns in the PF game, tend to limit them to single shot muskets and pistols, and not even revolvers. If a revolver is too modern for a typical game, surely a compound bow is waaaay too modern. As a GM, I wouldn't allow compound bows at my table.

I normally wouldn't allow compound bows into my game, as a fairly new gm. But if and when I do, I would in most cases treat them as exotic weapons and also as wondrous/magic items. But I was specifically asking today for a modern campaign setting I'm working up. I've got a new group ready reading up on the books, and I wanted their first experience with pathfinder to be fun, so I asked them what they would want. Some of them suggested a post apocalyptic book I'm writing, so as a side project I've been looking for resources to help with that campaign whilst preparing their first campaign (they're going to go on an adventure with Rasputin to find a crystal skull deep within a cave by some not-so-successful pirates). Now, my book takes place 150 years within the future, so survivors are left with flintlocks (modern cartridges are used up and nobody alive has the skills to make a modern bullet) as well medieval weapons and whats left over (Composite bows, crossbows, whatnot). Sort of a new Dark ages, but some colonies do have electricity, and sometimes this type of technology can be integrated with these weapons (Laser sighted flintlock pepperbox, electric chainswords/chainsaws, tomohawk pipe bombs, ect). Lucky for me their still reading the core rulebook, so I've had time for the main campaign as well as this side project. I have very few custom weapons so far, the first few are as such...

Roman Candle: 1d4, A primitive firearm for survival societies which have rediscovered black powder, but not perfected firearms yet. A simple firearm being a pipe... yes a pipe, blocked on one end, and a hole for a wick, sometimes a handle welded on to improve accuracy, but normally just held and aimed like a roman candle, its namesake. It has a misfire at a natural roll of 5 or lower, and rather than breaking, the item is destroyed if misfired, causing 1d4 damage to the user. Is an exotic weapon.

Katana staff: 1d8/1d8, an exotic weapon, it is not like the double walking stick katana, but is in fact a large staff (similar to a bo staff) with katana blades on each side. This effective weapon is used by survivors with martial arts training in the colonies whom had survivors who were also proficient in martial arts, and started up dojo's in these civilized colonies. Certain monks are proficient with the katana staff, counts as a double weapon.

Hand canon: Based on a weapon seen on pawn stars. This strange weapon sounds like a culverin, and is in many was similar. This pistol counts as a two handed weapon, and with those not proficient in this exotic weapon put themselves in an attack of opportunity when they fire it without a wall behind themselves, like the culverin. But those proficient with this weapon do not, this weapon deals 2d6 damage to a creature in an adjacent square, and put all creatures in the adjacent squares vulnerable to an attack of opportunity if they fail a dex check. It takes a full round action to load the weapon with 5 charges of black powder, and takes another full round action to light a wick and wait for the weapon to fire, resulting in an attack roll in his next turn. In this time, any time before his next turn, the user can cancel his attack at the cost of the which if he succeeds a concentration check to put out the wick. A failed attack roll results in two consequential rolls, a d20 roll to see how far from your target the projectile landed, and a d8 roll deciphering what direction it went (1,2,3,4 being north, south, east, and west. and 5,6,7,8 being ne, nw, se, sw.). Has a misfire of 1 when using a lead canon ball, a misfire of 2 when using a iron, brass, or bronze canon ball, and a misfire of 5 with an aluminum ball, but a natural or non-natural 2-5 just means the projectile was destroyed by the canon, and a successful attack with an aluminum canon ball results in just 1d6 damage.

I'm considering scrapping the third weapon because it may be overpowered. I tried to balance that out by making it take three rounds to use and just as dangerous to your allies as it is you, but I think it just makes it too complicated and overpowered to be fair for a campaign, even if its in a modern/post apocalyptic campaign.

 

[Puxido]

It's always after these long posts that replies slow down.

 

[Puxido]

I think it's been an appropriate amount of time to bump it.