D&D 3E/3.5 Waves of Fatigue and Exhaustion, new spells for 3.5E

[Artoomis]

Marginally useful??

Fatigued
Characters who are fatigued cannot run or charge and suffer an effective penalty of -2 to Strength and Dexterity. A fatigued character becomes exhausted by doing something else that would normally cause fatigue. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued.


Exhausted
Characters who are exhausted move at half normal speed and suffer an effective penalty of -6 to Strength and Dexterity. A fatigued character becomes exhausted by doing something else that would normally cause fatigue. After 1 hour of complete rest, exhausted characters become fatigued.


What other spells give you -2 to STR and DEX for all your opponents (well, potentially - all within the cone) with no save?? Plus, no running or charging allowed.

Or -6 to STR and DEX AND 1/2 speed??

I'm glad they were at 5th and 7th level, because with no save they are pretty powerful.

Note, too, that the exhausted character will be fatigued until 8 hours of rest!!

And a fatigued Barbarian will be exhausted after raging instead of only fatigued.

Much more than marginally useful, though it will be situation-dependent.

 

[hong]

There are a couple of spells in OA that are like that: Touch attack + Save + Wimpy for Level.

I found it rather aggravating to make a Metal focused Wu Jen.

Yeah, I had to beef up a few of the spells IMC. Not worth taking otherwise.

That said, I like quite a few of the OA spells. They're good, but not game-breakingly so -- you can't win an encounter single-handed with them (and so the rest of the party isn't reduced to the status of onlookers), but you can make a big contribution to the outcome. I'm thinking of spells like the following:

- rebuke: a poor man's hold person. It's good enough to win a fight, but generally you'll need the party to batter down the target.

- lightning blade: toned-down lightning bolt, or melee touch attack to deliver d6/level damage.

- magnetism: super disarm.

- pain: -2 on attacks and skill checks, at minimum.

- snake darts: poison deals Con damage at range (essentially).

And possibly others.

 

[Grog]

Well, I'm assuming there'll be a spell in 3.5E to deal with fatigue and exhaustion (there's already a "remove fatigue" spell in OA, for instance). Even if there isn't, I'd allow heal to do the job.

If the cleric has to use all his Heal spells just to get rid of exhaustion at the beginning of the day, the party could be in serious trouble if they get into a big, nasty fight later on. It's not guaranteed, but it's certainly possible that the party might have to rest after the fight. Pretty big impact for a single 7th level spell to have, I'd say.

 

[Grog]

I'm glad they were at 5th and 7th level, because with no save they are pretty powerful.

Note, too, that the exhausted character will be fatigued until 8 hours of rest!!

And a fatigued Barbarian will be exhausted after raging instead of only fatigued.

Much more than marginally useful, though it will be situation-dependent.

Well, of course the spells are useful - 5th and 7th level spells should be useful. The question is, will they be more useful to the PCs than their alternatives?

For example, will Cone of Exhaustion be more useful to a PC wizard than a double-empowered Fireball? Or some of the other 7th level spells? In a few cases it would be, but probably not a majority of the time, so it probably wouldn't be prepared very often. And probably not taken very often by PC sorcerers, either.

I'll probably allow the spells, but house rule them to make them only last for the duration of the encounter, plus maybe another half-hour or so. That will balance them for both PC and NPC use.

 

[hong]

If the cleric has to use all his Heal spells just to get rid of exhaustion at the beginning of the day, the party could be in serious trouble if they get into a big, nasty fight later on. It's not guaranteed, but it's certainly possible that the party might have to rest after the fight. Pretty big impact for a single 7th level spell to have, I'd say.

Hey, they're not _dead_. This is far preferable compared to a destruction or finger of death. Not to mention, a nice counter to those who keep saying that 3.5E is going to be a tank fighter's paradise.

 

[hong]

For example, will Cone of Exhaustion be more useful to a PC wizard than a double-empowered Fireball? Or some of the other 7th level spells? In a few cases it would be, but probably not a majority of the time, so it probably wouldn't be prepared very often. And probably not taken very often by PC sorcerers, either.

One of the oft-cited advantages of the magic missile spell is that it doesn't allow a save. It's guaranteed damage, even if the target has saves out the wazoo; the only real defence is SR. These spells share that advantage.

But what you _really_ do is hit them with the cone of exhaustion, _then_ the doubly-empowered fireball. Make a Ref save at -3, bay-bee!

 

[Grog]

Hey, they're not _dead_. This is far preferable compared to a destruction or finger of death. Not to mention, a nice counter to those who keep saying that 3.5E is going to be a tank fighter's paradise.

Good point, but destruction and finger of death at least allow a save, plus are prevented by Death Ward. Also, who's to say that in 3.5, those spells won't simply do damage instead of being instant kills? CoE hoses the entire party for a day with no save, unless the cleric is willing to blow all his best healing spells to fix it.

If they add a Remove Exhaustion spell to 3.5, I think it'd be much better balanced.

 

[Grog]

But what you _really_ do is hit them with the cone of exhaustion, _then_ the doubly-empowered fireball. Make a Ref save at -3, bay-bee!

Why not just hit them with two double-empowered fireballs instead?

 

[hong]

Good point, but destruction and finger of death at least allow a save, plus are prevented by Death Ward. Also, who's to say that in 3.5, those spells won't simply do damage instead of being instant kills? CoE hoses the entire party for a day with no save, unless the cleric is willing to blow all his best healing spells to fix it.

Actually, I wouldn't really say "hose". It's unwelcome, sure, but at the levels you're talking about, even being exhausted isn't such a huge problem. It's basically -3 on attacks, damage, AC and Ref saves, and some skills. It might not be good for the group's efficiency, but they can still function. Plus you can't run or charge and move at half-speed, but most people will have mobility boosters by that time anyway.

If they add a Remove Exhaustion spell to 3.5, I think it'd be much better balanced.

Oh, I'm with you that a remove exhaustion spell (or just beefing up remove fatigue to deal with exhaustion as well) would be good.

 

[Number47]

I believe what they've said is that Heal will fix fatigue and exhaustion, Lesser Restoration will fix fatigue and Restoration and Greater Restoration will fix exhaustion (and fatigue?). So, not to worry. It is no worse than ability damage, takes up some of the party's resources.