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D&D 1E Using 2e supplements on 1e
- Thread starter Jaredbleu
- Start date
MoonSong
Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
Well it depends what you want to include, as far as I can tell (I'm no 1st ed expert):
- Adventures, Magic items and lore, those need no conversion
- Monsters need minimal to no conversion, maybe AC if anything (1e doesn't go that low, but I've got no idea how hit charts of 1e work so it may be a non issue)
- Classes can be used side by side with no conversion needed
- Extra subsystems (psiconics, power points) are always add-ons and have no problem I guess, but if you want o use something like point build things you may need to convert to the spheres/schools of 2e.
- If you want to use splat (namely kits) that is a little trickier, but as far as I know fighter, rogue, paladin, cleric & mage kits can work as-is on their 1st edition versions. For Ranger, Bard and druid(not too sure with this one) kits you need to use the 2e version.
Man in the Funny Hat
Hero
2nd edition was intentionally designed to be very backward-compatible with 1E. You can use materials for either one with the other pretty freely, often without even worrying about any kind of conversion at all.
howandwhy99
Adventurer
There are a lot of differences between 1eAD&D and 2eAD&D, sort of like 3.0 to 3.5 d20 D&D. Your best bet is probably going to Dragonsfoot or someplace similar to really get a breakdown of all of what changed. I believe TSR also put out a conversion document for converting stats between the two. For the most part though, it's very similar.
THAC0 isn't 1e and a number of differences exist in the combat rules not to mention class kits in 2e. Later 2e, Skills & Powers, High Level Play and so on are significantly different.
I'd say, while setting material is overall very good in 2e it lacks an understanding of what a game setting needed in terms of stats for 1e. Adventures almost uniformly sucked outside Dungeon magazine. And with hindsight now, I don't believe a single person at TSR in the late 80s and all the 90s had any clue why D&D was designed as it was. Is 2e material still usable? Most definitely, and far easier in many cases than converting later D&D material. But don't expect the same rules understanding by the authors.
THAC0 isn't 1e and a number of differences exist in the combat rules not to mention class kits in 2e. Later 2e, Skills & Powers, High Level Play and so on are significantly different.
I'd say, while setting material is overall very good in 2e it lacks an understanding of what a game setting needed in terms of stats for 1e. Adventures almost uniformly sucked outside Dungeon magazine. And with hindsight now, I don't believe a single person at TSR in the late 80s and all the 90s had any clue why D&D was designed as it was. Is 2e material still usable? Most definitely, and far easier in many cases than converting later D&D material. But don't expect the same rules understanding by the authors.
Orius
Legend
I don't know too much about the specifics of 1e, but most of the differences between the two editions are small minor things that probably can be glossed over.
KaiiLurker's points are probably mostly right from what I know of 1e's differences. Module stuff, that is adventures, magic items and the like should be pretty compatible. Spells shouldn't be too hard to port. Monsters should be more or less useable, 2e stats are more detailed, but they tend to be things like fluff and non-combat information. Also monster XP is calculated differently in 2e so keep that in mind.
Classes shouldn't be a problem, but core 2e doesn't have any classes not present in 1e, 2e core has less classes than 1e core. The only class that has significant differences is the bard, but I've read some 1e groups like using the 2e bard because it's easier. There is the psionicist, but that's from a splat and psionics are optional anyway. Any other classes you want to use from optional 2e sources shouldn't be too much of a problem.
The one main subsystem in 2e that is probably different is proficiencies. BTB, it's optional so you can ignore it if you'd like anyway, but 2e's proficiency rules are supposed to be different from the rules that appeared in later 1e sources. There's also kits, but they're optional material from splats subject to DM approval. They're usually intended to be used with the proficiency rules as well. In any case, I don't see why proficiencies and kits couldn't just be ported to 1e largely whole anyway.
Then there's the various campaign settings which may or may not have problems. Here's what little I can offer on the settings (these are only general assumptions since I never heavily played any of the settings):
Greyhawk: 2e material will only matter here if you want to use stuff from Greyhawk Wars and beyond. Otherwise, the important setting material is 1e.
Dragonlance: I don't think there's any significant 2e material that would have any incompatibility with 1e. The Tales of the Lance box should be compatible with 1e, I don't know if there are issues with the Taladas material.
Forgotten Realms: Shouldn't be any problems. Al-Qadim falls under the Realms, main thing with that setting is that kits are suposed to be used (though I'd treat the sha'ir as a seperate class)
Mystara: Shouldn't be any problems. A good deal of fluff here comes from BECMI actually, the 2e material tends to be geared toward novice players so it's doubtful it would be a problem for a 1e group. There's also the Red Steel/Savage Coast stuff, main issue here is the Red Curse, but that probably shouldn't be a big problem with 1e.
Dark Sun: Requires 2e psionics rules. There's also stuff like defilers to take into account.
Ravenloft: I'm unaware of any issues that this setting might have with 1e.
Spelljammer: I'm unaware of any issues that this setting might have with 1e.
Planescape: Shouldn't be any problems. Planescape can support some rather diverse parties, so I'm sure it can probably handle 1e differences.
Birthright: The bloodline rules are a subsystem meant to be added on top of standard 2e classes, but I don't think using it under 1e rules might be too problematic. Domain rules are another subsystem, but I don't think it will clash with anything under 1e.
KaiiLurker's points are probably mostly right from what I know of 1e's differences. Module stuff, that is adventures, magic items and the like should be pretty compatible. Spells shouldn't be too hard to port. Monsters should be more or less useable, 2e stats are more detailed, but they tend to be things like fluff and non-combat information. Also monster XP is calculated differently in 2e so keep that in mind.
Classes shouldn't be a problem, but core 2e doesn't have any classes not present in 1e, 2e core has less classes than 1e core. The only class that has significant differences is the bard, but I've read some 1e groups like using the 2e bard because it's easier. There is the psionicist, but that's from a splat and psionics are optional anyway. Any other classes you want to use from optional 2e sources shouldn't be too much of a problem.
The one main subsystem in 2e that is probably different is proficiencies. BTB, it's optional so you can ignore it if you'd like anyway, but 2e's proficiency rules are supposed to be different from the rules that appeared in later 1e sources. There's also kits, but they're optional material from splats subject to DM approval. They're usually intended to be used with the proficiency rules as well. In any case, I don't see why proficiencies and kits couldn't just be ported to 1e largely whole anyway.
Then there's the various campaign settings which may or may not have problems. Here's what little I can offer on the settings (these are only general assumptions since I never heavily played any of the settings):
Greyhawk: 2e material will only matter here if you want to use stuff from Greyhawk Wars and beyond. Otherwise, the important setting material is 1e.
Dragonlance: I don't think there's any significant 2e material that would have any incompatibility with 1e. The Tales of the Lance box should be compatible with 1e, I don't know if there are issues with the Taladas material.
Forgotten Realms: Shouldn't be any problems. Al-Qadim falls under the Realms, main thing with that setting is that kits are suposed to be used (though I'd treat the sha'ir as a seperate class)
Mystara: Shouldn't be any problems. A good deal of fluff here comes from BECMI actually, the 2e material tends to be geared toward novice players so it's doubtful it would be a problem for a 1e group. There's also the Red Steel/Savage Coast stuff, main issue here is the Red Curse, but that probably shouldn't be a big problem with 1e.
Dark Sun: Requires 2e psionics rules. There's also stuff like defilers to take into account.
Ravenloft: I'm unaware of any issues that this setting might have with 1e.
Spelljammer: I'm unaware of any issues that this setting might have with 1e.
Planescape: Shouldn't be any problems. Planescape can support some rather diverse parties, so I'm sure it can probably handle 1e differences.
Birthright: The bloodline rules are a subsystem meant to be added on top of standard 2e classes, but I don't think using it under 1e rules might be too problematic. Domain rules are another subsystem, but I don't think it will clash with anything under 1e.
The major differences to be aware of are as follows. (Some of these got reversed in later supplements).
Races:
* 2E has no half-orc
* Some of the racial abilities have changed
* Multi-class level limits are now much, much higher
Classes:
* 2E has a Bard class. It's nothing like the 1E Bard.
* 2E did a massive rewrite on the Ranger class. d10 HD, no more magic-user spells.
* 2E did a minor rewrite on the Paladin class, mainly removing access to some cleric spells.
* Giants and Dragons have tougher stats in 2E
* In 2E, the Wizard killed the Illusionist and took his stuff. Specialist Wizards were added to the game, which allowed 1 extra spell/spell level castable per day of the specialist school (e.g. necromancy, enchantment, evocation) and barred one or two other schools from being cast.
* The Cleric killed the Druid and took his stuff. Then the Druid rebelled and set out on his own, but was now casting spells from the Cleric lists.
* 2E has no monk or assassin
* Thieves now had skill points to assign to their thief skills: each skill had a base, and then a number of percentage points were assigned between the skills as desired during character creation and for each level gained.
Non-Weapon Proficiencies:
* The NWP system has become part of the core game. (The AD&D version is in the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide and Wilderness Survival Guide). Certain supplements (the Complete series, in particular) make extensive use of the non-weapon proficiency system.
Weapon Proficiencies:
* Specialisation has become part of the core game, although not as powerful as in 1E's Unearthed Arcana. Certain supplements (the Complete series, in particular) make extensive use of the weapon proficiency system.
Monsters:
* Magic Resistance is now expressed as a flat chance of the spell failing, rather than being modified by the level of the caster.
* Dragons and Giants (in particular) now have more hit dice and are more dangerous foes. Dragons also have 12 age levels rather than 8.
Combat:
* There's a brand new combat progression table - it's mostly analogous to 1E though, and can be ignored
* Weaponless combat and combat manoeuvres have been completely overhauled.
Spells:
* As noted above, cleric spells and druid spells have been merged. They're now split into "Spheres", with clerics able to cast certain spheres but not all. Druids can cast different spheres. The ranger gets divine spells from a handful of spheres, as does the paladin.
* Ditto for wizard and illusionist spells. Wizards can cast any spell on the list (potentially); specialists choose a specialist school and one or two banned schools.
* Fireball and Lightning Bolt are capped at 10d6 damage. Magic Missile is capped at 5 missiles. There are other changes.
Experience:
* Characters no longer gain XP for treasure. (It is mentioned as an optional rule).
There are a bunch of other changes as well. However, 99% of the changes can be found in the 2E Player's Handbook; the DMG doesn't really have very much in it at all.
You could probably use a lot of the material in an AD&D campaign, but books giving more options for characters (the Complete series) have a fair whack of stuff that needs material not core to 1E.
Cheers!
Races:
* 2E has no half-orc
* Some of the racial abilities have changed
* Multi-class level limits are now much, much higher
Classes:
* 2E has a Bard class. It's nothing like the 1E Bard.
* 2E did a massive rewrite on the Ranger class. d10 HD, no more magic-user spells.
* 2E did a minor rewrite on the Paladin class, mainly removing access to some cleric spells.
* Giants and Dragons have tougher stats in 2E
* In 2E, the Wizard killed the Illusionist and took his stuff. Specialist Wizards were added to the game, which allowed 1 extra spell/spell level castable per day of the specialist school (e.g. necromancy, enchantment, evocation) and barred one or two other schools from being cast.
* The Cleric killed the Druid and took his stuff. Then the Druid rebelled and set out on his own, but was now casting spells from the Cleric lists.
* 2E has no monk or assassin
* Thieves now had skill points to assign to their thief skills: each skill had a base, and then a number of percentage points were assigned between the skills as desired during character creation and for each level gained.
Non-Weapon Proficiencies:
* The NWP system has become part of the core game. (The AD&D version is in the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide and Wilderness Survival Guide). Certain supplements (the Complete series, in particular) make extensive use of the non-weapon proficiency system.
Weapon Proficiencies:
* Specialisation has become part of the core game, although not as powerful as in 1E's Unearthed Arcana. Certain supplements (the Complete series, in particular) make extensive use of the weapon proficiency system.
Monsters:
* Magic Resistance is now expressed as a flat chance of the spell failing, rather than being modified by the level of the caster.
* Dragons and Giants (in particular) now have more hit dice and are more dangerous foes. Dragons also have 12 age levels rather than 8.
Combat:
* There's a brand new combat progression table - it's mostly analogous to 1E though, and can be ignored
* Weaponless combat and combat manoeuvres have been completely overhauled.
Spells:
* As noted above, cleric spells and druid spells have been merged. They're now split into "Spheres", with clerics able to cast certain spheres but not all. Druids can cast different spheres. The ranger gets divine spells from a handful of spheres, as does the paladin.
* Ditto for wizard and illusionist spells. Wizards can cast any spell on the list (potentially); specialists choose a specialist school and one or two banned schools.
* Fireball and Lightning Bolt are capped at 10d6 damage. Magic Missile is capped at 5 missiles. There are other changes.
Experience:
* Characters no longer gain XP for treasure. (It is mentioned as an optional rule).
There are a bunch of other changes as well. However, 99% of the changes can be found in the 2E Player's Handbook; the DMG doesn't really have very much in it at all.
You could probably use a lot of the material in an AD&D campaign, but books giving more options for characters (the Complete series) have a fair whack of stuff that needs material not core to 1E.
Cheers!
Last edited:
TarionzCousin
Second Most Angelic Devil Ever
I had totally forgotten this. I'm sure that the fact that none of the PC's in my campaign were half-orcs contributed to it.
My favorite addition of 2E were the Non-Weapon Proficiencies.
Orius
Legend
Not entirely accurate; XP for treasure is an optional rule if the DM chooses to implement it.
I think it's one of the races added back in with the Complete Book of Humanoids, which why I mention a few omissions got reversed.
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