Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana - The 5E "Battlesystem" Mass Combat Rules Are Here!

The mass combat rules have been posted in the latest Unearthed Arcana. "The D&D combat rules in the Player’s Handbook are designed to model conflict between small groups—an adventuring party of perhaps three to six characters against monster groups that rarely exceed a dozen creatures. Combat on this scale keeps the focus squarely on the adventurers. In some D&D campaigns, though, the story might hinge on battles involving dozens or hundreds of monsters and warriors. In this second installment of Unearthed Arcana, we build on the standard combat rules to model conflict on a much larger scale, allowing players and DMs to control whole armies. At the same time, these rules for mass combat allow individual adventurers to lead an army’s charge against an enemy regiment, rally dispirited soldiers to rejoin the fray, or defeat powerful enemy monsters or leaders."

Find it here! It's a 9-page PDF by Mike Mearls.

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[GMforPowergamers]

I think this is a really good start. I do find solos a little wonky, but I think that can be fixed with some playtesting. Will definitely be trying these out as soon as I can.

I would love to see them demonstrate these rules as well.

I'm actually surprised with the depth of these rules, considering how light the Ebberon stuff was last time.

one of my PCs pointed out a problem...

His example:

I'm a wizard level XX, (where XX is a good double digit number) I have fireball prepped, and forgetting everything else, my mage can at least 10 times cast that spell (using higher level slots) the very first round my wizard takes 1 minute to cast a spell that normally takes 6 seconds... it is a HUGE nerf.

now he went farther and started figuring size and average damages, basically showing that a fight that a wizard could solo would kill the wizard in these rules...

 

[Kobold Avenger]

one of my PCs pointed out a problem...

His example:

I'm a wizard level XX, (where XX is a good double digit number) I have fireball prepped, and forgetting everything else, my mage can at least 10 times cast that spell (using higher level slots) the very first round my wizard takes 1 minute to cast a spell that normally takes 6 seconds... it is a HUGE nerf.

It's an abstraction the whole 1 minute thing at that scale, and it should be assumed that the wizard is moving around into position and casting a bunch of cantrips for those other 9 6-second rounds.

And also who wouldn't join themselves with a stand? Even if it's a stand of commoners, that's at least protection for 1 round against a bunch of the penalties for isolation.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It's an abstraction the whole 1 minute thing at that scale, and it should be assumed that the wizard is moving around into position and casting a bunch of cantrips for those other 9 6-second rounds.

And also who wouldn't join themselves with a stand? Even if it's a stand of commoners, that's at least protection for 1 round against a bunch of the penalties for isolation.

except those cantrips have 0 effect...

 

[SkidAce]

except those cantrips have 0 effect...

Isn't it the same for solo fighters?

Normally has 1 attack per six seconds, now has 1 attack per minute?

I think it is an abstraction that applies equally to all, caster, fighter ,friend, or foe.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

More on Solos:

If I were to houserule it, it would probably be something like:

-Solos can take the actions they would normally take in a standard round in the 1 minute battle round. They have the speed and move as per the rules for stands. (In general various things compensate for the time differential).

-All weapon attacks on solos do double damage. This reflects either the group attack of the stand or another solo (effectively) making multiple attacks. Only solo cast spells (or special abilities, like a breath weapon) do standard damage. Isolated solos still attacked with advantage.

-A stand attacked by a solo can make an attack as a reaction against the solo (this includes ranged attacks, if they have a way to fire back).

-A solo can target another solo in a stand. But see previous.

-Stands cannot attack solos that are part of a stand. Stands attack solos more then 1 square away at disadvantage, unless the solo attacked them in the round.

-Possibly crazy optional rule: casters with the warcaster feat can cast two spells with one action in a battle round. Or maybe with a concentration check.

These rules still allow a martial type solo to wade into the fight, or rain arrows, but they need to have the AC and HP to withstand the counterattack. They also allow solo hunting, with the option of joining a stand acting as something of a deterrent.

I like these. Have a possible mass combat tonight, if the players go that way. Will use your mods if so.

 

[Li Shenron]

I'm a wizard level XX, (where XX is a good double digit number) I have fireball prepped, and forgetting everything else, my mage can at least 10 times cast that spell (using higher level slots) the very first round my wizard takes 1 minute to cast a spell that normally takes 6 seconds... it is a HUGE nerf.

It's not a nerf, it's a different system of rules that apply to all participants.

Narratively it can be justified by imagining that the a very large battle makes it impossible to act once per 6 seconds. You need to move around a lot in the midst of chaos just to follow your target, you need to keep your defenses up, can't think normally when you have potentially hundreds of threats around you, and you're getting much more tired.

Furthermore, IIRC with each casting of a spell the Wizard will affect a whole stand, so instead of casting 10 spells on 10 targets in 10 consecutive rounds, you cast 1 spell on 10 targets in a single mega-round of the same length. So you actually get a benefit of achieving a lot more than usual with that spell... This also means the Wizard won't run out of spell quickly at the beginning of the battle. Certainly, some spells that already have a large-area effect may overall be less good than usual, while other spells will be better.

Anyway the whole point of this system is being able to run a battle with e.g. 100 participants without dying of boredom while rolling 100 attacks or ST per round. But you can still do that, if you want absolute consistency between the rules of small-scale and large-scale battles. The problem is that things just can't be made to work exactly the same, so one way or the other the large-scale system will have some odd inconsistencies with the regular combat rules.

 

[Li Shenron]

More on Solos:

If I were to houserule it, it would probably be something like:

I like these. Have a possible mass combat tonight, if the players go that way. Will use your mods if so.

These are all interesting rules, but please if you have the chance to play some large battles in your games, please please use the current battlesystem as-is first, and send your feedback to WotC. They can still change it (as well as all stuff appearing in UA), but if each gaming group doesn't even test it before trying their own variants, then the feedback will be inconsistent, and WotC won't make proper adjustments.

 

[wedgeski]

These are all interesting rules, but please if you have the chance to play some large battles in your games, please please use the current battlesystem as-is first, and send your feedback to WotC. They can still change it (as well as all stuff appearing in UA), but if each gaming group doesn't even test it before trying their own variants, then the feedback will be inconsistent, and WotC won't make proper adjustments.

Absolutely agree with this. It always strikes me as odd when gamers machine-gun a set of house-rules at a system without even trying it first. As a famous paleontologist once said, how can you *possibly* know what to expect?

 

[TerraDave]

These are all interesting rules, but please if you have the chance to play some large battles in your games, please please use the current battlesystem as-is first, and send your feedback to WotC. They can still change it (as well as all stuff appearing in UA), but if each gaming group doesn't even test it before trying their own variants, then the feedback will be inconsistent, and WotC won't make proper adjustments.

Absolutely agree with this. It always strikes me as odd when gamers machine-gun a set of house-rules at a system without even trying it first. As a famous paleontologist once said, how can you *possibly* know what to expect?

I know what to expect because I have read the rules, and I have done mass combats in D&D before. I am going to do it however I want to do it.

 

[TerraDave]

These are all interesting rules, but please if you have the chance to play some large battles in your games, please please use the current battlesystem as-is first, and send your feedback to WotC. They can still change it (as well as all stuff appearing in UA), but if each gaming group doesn't even test it before trying their own variants, then the feedback will be inconsistent, and WotC won't make proper adjustments.

I like these. Have a possible mass combat tonight, if the players go that way. Will use your mods if so.

Great, let me know how it goes.