D&D 1E Too much XP (1e D&D)

[Crothian]

The situation is when the PCs get XP they get more then they need for the level. So, by the rules they are limited to the amount of XP they can have till they train and gain a level. I don't find the rules clear as to what number their XP should be. Is it the minimum needed to be the new level, or something different?

 

[Croesus]

The situation is when the PCs get XP they get more then they need for the level. So, by the rules they are limited to the amount of XP they can have till they train and gain a level. I don't fuind the rules clear as to what number their XP should be. Is it the minimum needed to be the new level, or something different?

I don't have the book in front of me, but IIRC, PC's can continue to gain XP until they are 1 XP short of the next level.

Example 1:
1st level cleric has 1,400 XP. He gains 200 XP on his next adventure, giving him a total of 1,600 and can train to 2nd level. If for some reason he continues to adventure as a 1st level cleric, he gains no additional XP until he trains. [corrected per later responses]

Example 2:
1st level cleric has 1,400 XP. He goes on an adventure and the party is very lucky with their treasure, giving everyone 3,000 XP. Normally the cleric would have 4,400 XP, but that's enough to reach 3rd level, and he can't go straight from 1st to 3rd. So he is limited to 2,999 XP until he trains. The extra XP is lost.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Oh... this is for AD&D? Is this where the training idea comes from?

My understanding is that such rules don't exist in 3.5, is that correct?

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

I don't have the book in front of me, but IIRC, PC's can continue to gain XP until they are 1 XP short of the next level.

Nope, you have to stop and train as soon as you have enough XP to level up:

All training/study is recorded in game time. The period must be uninterrupted and continuous. He or she cannot engage in adventuring, travel, magic research of any nature other than that concerned with level advancement, atonement, etc. If there is a serious hiatus in the course of training/study the character loses all of the benefits of the time spent prior to the interruption, as well as the total funds advanced for the training/study, and he or she must begin anew if a level of experience is to be gained.

Under no circumstances can a character gain additional experience points by any means until he or she actually acquires the higher level through the required training/study course. Thus, a character who successfully adventures and gains experience points which not only equal a new level but are almost sufficient to gain yet a second such level, cannot opt to forego the period of training and study necessary to go up a level in favor of gaining a few more points and training and studying for two levels at once. ONCE A CHARACTER HAS POINTS WHICH ARE EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN THE MINIMUM NUMBER NECESSARY TO MOVE UPWARDS IN EXPERIENCE LEVEL, NO FURTHER EXPERIENCE POINTS CAN BE GAINED UNTIL THE CHARACTER ACTUALLY GAINS THE NEW LEVEL. This rule applies to bards, as noted (for failure to make the necessary contributions and payments).

My understanding is that such rules don't exist in 3.5, is that correct?

That's correct.

 

[kitcik]

Nope, you have to stop and train as soon as you have enough XP to level up.

ONCE A CHARACTER HAS POINTS WHICH ARE EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN THE MINIMUM NUMBER NECESSARY TO MOVE UPWARDS IN EXPERIENCE LEVEL, NO FURTHER EXPERIENCE POINTS CAN BE GAINED UNTIL THE CHARACTER ACTUALLY GAINS THE NEW LEVEL.

I agree with you (you can't keep gaining) - but I just want to clarify that in the case where you get a lump sum XP award that blows you over, you do get XP until you are one point short of the next level. So, in the case where you have 1,400 XP and need to get to 2,000 for this level and 3,000 for the next level, and you get a lump sum 2,000 award, you will end up at 2,999.

 

[Crothian]

It is that greater then that gets confusing.

 

[airwalkrr]

My understanding is that such rules don't exist in 3.5, is that correct?

That's correct.

That's incorrect. In fact, rules for training do exist in the 3.5 DMG on pages 197-198. However, they are presented as more of an optional rule than a standard rule. This is due, no doubt, to the fact that many, if not most AD&D DMs often glossed over the requirement for training to level up in AD&D.

And to answer Crothian, the rule about earning enough XP to be 1 point shy of the next level is a 3e thing. In AD&D, when you earn enough XP to level, you stop earning XP until you take the time to train to level.

 

[Crothian]

nd to answer Crothian, the rule about earning enough XP to be 1 point shy of the next level is a 3e thing. In AD&D, when you earn enough XP to level, you stop earning XP until you take the time to train to level.

That's not the question. The question is do you just stop at the total you have or are you limited in some way? For instance a first level thief out with a group of higher level characters could easily earn enough say 3000xp in a session. He can't earn any more till he trains but does he get to keep all of that and just train for second and third level. Or does he lose some XP because he gained more then he needed for second level? And if he does lose some then how much, what is he limited to?

 

[airwalkrr]

That's not the question.

Hmm, I thought it was the question. Re-reading it, I still think it looks like that's the question. But let me tackle these specific issues you mention.

The question is do you just stop at the total you have or are you limited in some way?

You stop at the point where you have at least enough to level.

For instance a first level thief out with a group of higher level characters could easily earn enough say 3000xp in a session. He can't earn any more till he trains but does he get to keep all of that and just train for second and third level.

If you want a highly technically accurate answer, he stops earning XP as soon as he earns XP which is enough to level him up. This implies the DM should be keeping track of XP-awarding events to some degree. If the thief is at 1150 points and steals 150 gp worth of items then he hits 1300 and stops gaining XP until he takes the time to train. But if the DM doesn't award XP until the end of a session or the end of an adventure (I think AD&D leaves this up to the DM), then the thief might earn significantly more, possibly enough to level him up multiple times. This assumes a massive XP dump though, and I don't think the rules were quite intended to handle this kind of situation.

Or does he lose some XP because he gained more then he needed for second level?

It depends on how the DM awards XP. If the DM sees XP awards as being only granted once an entire adventure is completed, then technically, no, he doesn't miss out on any XP. In your theoretical example, he stops at 3000 until he takes time to level up. But your example is not an entirely common one, and one I don't think the rules were written to handle. I imagine the author of the DMG would say these kinds of situations, rare as they are, ought to be left to the DM to handle as he sees fit. I know that's not the answer you probably want to hear, but it's the best I can do.

And if he does lose some then how much, what is he limited to?

I would prefer the term "missed out on" XP first of all, because we aren't talking about an actual XP loss. Second, I don't think the rules ever address an exact number, but rather a point in time. The thief stops gaining XP (and starts missing out on XP other characters are eligible for) when he reaches enough or more than enough to level. If the DM is handing out XP every time an event occurs that grants XP, the thief will probably stop gaining XP very close to 1001. But if the DM dumps all XP at the end of a long session or adventure, then the thief gets all 3000 XP, so long as the DM finds that appropriate.

 

[billd91]

It's true, there's a lot of ambiguity in the rule. That "greater than" is a bit tricky. I would interpret it as allowing a character's last XP award to take him above the minimum he needs for one level, so that 1st level thief who goes from some value under 1251 to 1473 XPs in one award keeps XP in excess of 1251... but stays at that total until he trains for level 2 successfully and cannot gain enough to reach level 3.

I believe that's probably the intent behind the text quoted above by Eldritch_Lord. It's hard to tell for sure. So suppose that 1st level thief goes from some value under 1251 XP to 7321 in one award. Since I think the intent is also to prevent the character from gaining more than 1 level's worth of XP in one go, I think he really does lose all XP between 2499 and 7321 (AKA all XP in excess of 1 XP short of level 3). That's the best of my ability to interpret what the rules in the 1e DMG actually say and seem to imply.

And, yes, it can be pretty harsh if the DM doesn't award XPs very often or if characters can't scrape together the cash to pay for sufficient training, either because they have an unusually large portion of XPs from non-treasure sources or have been saddled with a Fair to Poor rating for play. Welcome to the world of lost XPs, 1e style.