D&D 5E The Magical Martial

[dave2008]

If everybody in the world can do it it's ordinary.
If everybody in the world has potential to do it by simply training it it's extraordinary.
If it requires some outside supernatural force to enable someone to be able to do it while breaking the base laws of the world, it supernatural.

That is your definition of those terms - great! I generally like them.

So what does that mean in terms of game like D&D. If one player is supernatural and can throw giant boulders as previously describe, what is there level and what can an ordinary person do of the same level?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If everybody in the world can do it it's ordinary.
If everybody in the world has potential to do it by simply training it it's extraordinary.
If it requires some outside supernatural force to enable someone to be able to do it while breaking the base laws of the world, it supernatural.

So wizardry is not supernatural. I don't think this works...

 

[dave2008]

Grendel is described as a eoten (ettin) which is probaby cognate to jotun
The issue though is DnD sets Str 20 in the range of normal - a troll has Str 18

Oh sure, but I am not talking about specific rules. 18 used to be the highest and in 5e you can to at least 2 as a barbarian. I am talking about real (or world) and fantasy (magical world)

 

[Minigiant]

So wizardry is not supernatural. I don't think this works...

The wizard is not supernatural.
The wizardry is.

 

[CreamCloud0]

So wizardry is not supernatural. I don't think this works...

is magic not an outside supernatural force?

 

[Minigiant]

That is your definition of those terms - great! I generally like them.

So what does that mean in terms of game like D&D. If one player is supernatural and can throw giant boulders as previously describe, what is there level and what can an ordinary person do of the same level?

Boulder throwing is based on Strength and Size not level.

 

[Cadence]

If everybody in the world can do it it's ordinary.
If everybody in the world has potential to do it by simply training it it's extraordinary.
If it requires some outside supernatural force to enable someone to be able to do it while breaking the base laws of the world, it supernatural.

I am really not trying to go down a rabbit hole here and so don't need a response. But I'm trying to work this out in my head for my own uses in the future - so feel free to give one if you think it would help. (Thanks either way!)

Everyone in the world clearly doesn't have the potential to dunk a basketball at regulation height without assistance. Does requiring height make it extraordinary? Not everyone who wants to can hit a professionally thrown fastball with any noticeable chance (even great athletes from other sports). etc...

Is it different if in the world it takes a certain amount of Ki to call upon it in a way that's large enough to get a game effect from it? When would it pass from extraordinary to supernatural according to the base laws of the world?

If you're in a world that widely accepts magic (Dying Earth, Lord Darcy, Garrett Files, etc...), is magic considered "supernatural" still? Are mutants in the 616 extraordinary or supernatural? Hawkeye?

 

[dave2008]

Boulder throwing is based on Strength and Size not level.

In many/most editions (at least 3e, 4e, & 5e) strength is related to level. In 5e most classes can't get past 20 strength until after lvl 20. Strength over 20 is specifically "epic" and past level 20 in 5e.

So again, what level gives you the strength to do that? Why do keep ducking the question?

Or are you suggesting if I had a level 5 character with 50 strength when every other lvl 5 character has 18 strength that is somehow balanced? Or is balance and illusion and not important?

To be honest, balance is not that important to me.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Fantasy does not have to mean, "no restrictions, do what you want". It can mean that, but assuming it must and that people who disagree are ignorant is insulting.

Fantasy Definition & Meaning | Britannica Dictionary

FANTASY meaning: 1 : something that is produced by the imagination an idea about doing something that is far removed from normal reality; 2 : the act of imagining something imagination

www.britannica.com

It specifically calls out being "far removed from reality".

Does it mean there can or should be restrictions? Maybe (personally I think not, but for the sake of discussion..)

Using the real world as your rubric for what those limitations should be...is a choice though.. and one that is contrary to the stated definition of the word.

People making those choices are responsible for them.

 

[Yaarel]

The term "supernatural" is unhelpful in a context where magic is ubiquitous.

The term "supernatural" is a scientific concept. Science establishes the "laws" by which the universe functions. Supernatural is something beyond the universe that can interfere with and override the laws of the universe.

The only time the term supernatural might make sense in D&D is if it specifically refers to the Astral Plane with its Celestials, Fiends, Clerics and Paladins, who are "beyond" the Material Plane.

I am really not trying to go down a rabbit hole here and so don't need a response. But I'm trying to work this out in my head for my own uses in the future - so feel free to give one if you think it would help. (Thanks either way!)

I hope my comment helps sort the terms.

Everyone in the world clearly doesn't have the potential to dunk a basketball at regulation height without assistance. Does requiring height make it extraordinary?

Height correlates with DNA, but culture and events can significantly alter someones height.

Normal reallife humans include heights that roughly correspond to D&D Large (over 8 foot) and Small (under 4 foot).

So, Large and Small sizes are "ordinary".

However, for a human or humanshape to be Huge and Tiny seems extraordinary to me.

Not everyone who wants to can hit a professionally thrown fastball with any noticeable chance (even great athletes from other sports). etc...

Actually, sports and weighttraining and so on, very much are learned skills.

A person might have an innate talent for certain skills, but learning and experience still matter.

So, ordinary.

Is it different if in the world it takes a certain amount of Ki to call upon it in a way that's large enough to get a game effect from it? When would it pass from extraordinary to supernatural according to the base laws of the world?

Ki is natural. Every human, every animal, indeed everything, and the cosmos, exhibits ki.

It is possible to talk about ordinary uses of ki, versus extraordinary uses of ki.

If you're in a world that widely accepts magic (Dying Earth, Lord Darcy, Garrett Files, etc...), is magic considered "supernatural" still?

If the world itself is magical, then magic is natural.

If the world itself is void of magic, but magic from beyond the world can override it, then this otherworldly source of magic would be supernatural.

Are mutants in the 616 extraordinary or supernatural? Hawkeye?

Mutant superheroes are natural, magic, and extraordinary.

If Hawkeye is an olympic level athlete and sharphooter, who uses hi-tech, then he would be natural and extraordinary.