D&D General The 13th Age 2nd Edition Kickstarter Has Launched

13th Age was released 10 years ago as a 'love letter' to D&D. Designed by D&D 3E's Jonathan Tweet and 4E's Rob Heinsoo, it streamlined the game and introduced innovations such as the Escalation Die, and it's One Unique Thing, a trait that every character has which is individual to them.

2nd Edition is now here--streamlined, clarified, backward-compatible, and updated with revised classes, monsters, and more. And, unlike the single book format of the original, this version comes in the form of a 240-page Player's Handbook and a 160-page Gamemaster's Guide.

You can pick up both books for £40 in PDF or £100 in hardcover format, plus dice, a GM screen, and more.

There's a free preview document available (12-page PDF).

Designer Rob Heinsoo spoke to EN Publishing's Jessica Hancock about 13th Age 2E last year on the Not DnD show.

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[Blue]

from my understanding it is an evolution of 4e, kinda an alternative 5e, but I have no first hand experience with it so cannot say if it is closest to 5e

I playtested 1st edition, kickstarted it, ran a 4 year campaign in it, and playtested 2nd. I can tell you. 5e is the closest D&D to it.

 

[dave2008]

One of the things i loved in the 1st edition book that I hope they continue was frequent sidebars directly from the Rob and Jonathan. Many of them addressed why they did a rule in a specific way, or the effects of changing certain rules, optional rules, and even in one case where they disagreed on a rule and the points for both sides.

Makes it really easy to hack when you have that insight into the design process.

The kickstarter said that despite those comments not being in the playtest, they will be in the final print version.

 

[mamba]

13A said 4e was great, keep as much as possible, but bring back some of what made 3e great too. Which shouldn't be at all surprising, because its designers were Heinsoo and Tweet, the lead designers of 4e and 3e respectively.

that was more my understanding, that 13A was evolving 4e while 5e was more a do-over, but that does not mean they could not end up in a similar place… There sometimes are these posts that 5e is just a thin coat of paint to hide the 4e below it. Not having played 13A it could go either way and I would not know

 

[Blue]

I would not personally say it is very close to 5e, but rather that it does the reverse of what 5e did.

5e said 4e was terrible, so it snuck in a few bits and pieces from 4e and then actively avoided keeping anything else, striving as much as possible to be "3e but not so thoroughly broken."

13A said 4e was great, keep as much as possible, but bring back some of what made 3e great too. Which shouldn't be at all surprising, because its designers were Heinsoo and Tweet, the lead designers of 4e and 3e respectively.

Yes, 5e swept away the good parts of 4e with the rest while 13th Age did not. But 13th Age doesn't play anything like 4e.

There's no power lockstep that makes each class feel the same, rather the classes vary widely and it uses the timing of the full heal-up to keep the classes balanced against each other. 4e was filled with lots of unique powers that were thematically related but in practical use their effects and the conditions they did and the area they affected was so different that you needed to do a lot of evaluation each turn, and playing someone else's paragon or higher character effectively was not fast. 13th Age plays fast and streamlined. It doesn't use paragon or epic classes. (Nor subclasses in their current incarnation, something added to D&D by 5e after 13th Age was out.) Also, 13th Age is not at all beholden to grids (functionally required for 4e) nor to a ridiculous stack of conditions on foes and PCs alike.

What it does keep are concepts like Bloodied, Healing Surges. That instead of "short rest" powers they have "encounter" powers. They keep building monsters as monsters like 4e and later 5e did, instead of as PCs like 3.x did. Having just a few saves, and you roll against them just like AC, like 4e did it.

All in all, there are some good bones of 4e in it, but the sensibilities about what the market wanted seem to match 5e the most - it's a streamlined game that is less wargame than some earlier editions that plays fast and furious, and the characters seem like heroes.

 

[Blue]

The kickstarter said that despite those comments not being in the playtest, they will be in the final print version.

Yeah. They put 100% of the rules in their SRD, so part of the secret sauce to sell the books is all of this great advice in the sidebars. Plus art and the usual suspects.

 

[Retreater]

You are one of the people I interact with a fair bit here, so I think I can be confident you will like it, even if there will be some things not to your taste. If I'm wrong and you end up coming to a Con I go to, there will be a beer or suitable beverage bought by me to dull some of the pain.

I've run 13th Age 1st edition for a quick 1-10 campaign. I enjoyed it. I have a different group now, just not sure if it's their style or not.

 

[Staffan]

I found Icons very Intersting and helped me shape my campaign (it shows what the Players are interested in and automatically includes in in Gameplay), but at higher levels I got overhelmed with the number of Icon Events that I had to fit in.

My issue with Icons is mostly that they are a "per session" thing. My main group usually plays for what in theory is three hours on one weeknight per week, but between people being late and us spending time catching up and such it's more like two hours in practice. And with an average of one icon event per player (three dice per player that do something on 5 or 6), that's a lot of icon stuff per hour.

It's a thing I see with many other systems as well. For example, both The Troubleshooters and Infinity has resources that reset per session. I have lately taken to changing these things to be per important story beat instead, which should be about 2-3 sessions.

 

[SteveC]

My issue with Icons is mostly that they are a "per session" thing. My main group usually plays for what in theory is three hours on one weeknight per week, but between people being late and us spending time catching up and such it's more like two hours in practice. And with an average of one icon event per player (three dice per player that do something on 5 or 6), that's a lot of icon stuff per hour.

I had a similar situation. I was running at about the two-hour mark and it seemed like it was just too much. I talked with my players, and they were okay with me switching to re-rolling Icons after a long rest. It worked for us.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

Backed it! Currently GMing my first 13th Age campaign. Should wrap up just as 2nd Edition ships.

 

[Blue]

My issue with Icons is mostly that they are a "per session" thing. My main group usually plays for what in theory is three hours on one weeknight per week, but between people being late and us spending time catching up and such it's more like two hours in practice. And with an average of one icon event per player (three dice per player that do something on 5 or 6), that's a lot of icon stuff per hour.

It's a thing I see with many other systems as well. For example, both The Troubleshooters and Infinity has resources that reset per session. I have lately taken to changing these things to be per important story beat instead, which should be about 2-3 sessions.

Here's a comment on that from Rob Heinsoo, from the Kickstarter page:

"ROB SAYS: Honestly, the icon rules as presented in 1E were indecipherable and harder to use than they should be. In 2E we've streamlined and clarified how those connections work narratively and mechanically, changed them so you roll for a "twist" after using the connection, and provided different techniques for using them: interacting with icon-aligned NPCs, flashbacks, channeling raw iconic power, getting help from icon-associated spirits, and so"