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D&D 5E Sneak look at 5E !

5EFAN

First Post
D&D 5th edition, a first look.

The books are heavy, and the artwork is nice, but what is inside?

The first big change is the loss of races and classes, now everything is paths.

You pick 3 paths and these create your character. So you could pick Elf-Archer-Sneak to build a stealthy ranged fighter, or Wizard(Disciple of Fire)-Wizard(Ice-Blood Warlock)-Wizard(Storm Sourcerer) to build a human battle-mage.
That's right - races and classes are now 'paths', but there is a third type called 'templates' which are things which are not quite either. If you have a yearning to be spellscared or a vampire then templates are where you go.
The PHB dosn't have a lot of templates, but more are in the DMG.
Paths also determine your stats. Everybody gets a baseline of 10 in each stat (+0) but every time you pick a 'path' you get your stats raised appropriate to that path.
The stat thing is a bit confusing, as if two paths give you the same boost you get a decreasing pay-off and some of that stat bonus spills over onto secondary stats.
There is also an optional point-buy system similar to 4e, and a roll-x-leave-x system for 3.x grongards.
Personally I like the path=stats thing, it means you get what you need for what you have picked.

Presentation of the paths is interesting, more like a White-Wolf splat splash-page, but the artwork is gorgeous! They also tell you what each path is good at, better than just ‘striker’ or ‘controller’.

The exciting bit is the ability to mix races. If you pick Elf-Dwarf-Halberdier you get to create either a half-elf-half-dwarf or a dwarf raised by elves or something.
'Human' is no longer a race - instead they are the baseline and get 3 slots for their paths that they no longer have to use on races. Half-humans can pick a background that gives them stuff.

Each path gives one of two basic abilities, but double-picking a path gives both plus a third 'exemplar' ability.
So once you have picked your paths your stats and defenses are in place, and you have 3-4 basic abilities, plus you get to pick an attack power from each path, and pick your path skills (similar to training in 4e).
Then you pick a background, and equipment and you are set.

Powers and boosts.

Gone are encounter and daily powers - now everything is at-will.
However, powers can be boosted. Here is a chart showing what they are roughly equivilent to.
Boost 0 = Heroic at-will
Boost 1 = Heroic tier encounter equivalent, or paragon at-will
Boost 2 = Heroic daily or paragon encounter or epic at-will
Boost 3 = Paragon daily or epic encounter
Boost 4 = Epic daily
Each character gets boost points, and these are per-encounter and refresh after a 5 minute rest.
Spending a boost point gets you a little extra something (bigger areas for blasts, longer range, more damage, extra conditions to inflict, etc).
Some powers have mix-and-match effects, others just a 1-2-3-4 boost progression.
If you roll a crit you can choose to do max damage OR boost your power.
If you spend an action point you get +1 boost to everything for the rest of that turn.
At 11th and 21st level you get an auto-boost to everything.

Boost points come in four flavors: Effort, Focus, Grace, and Mana.
Each character can only have one type of boost point chosen at character creation.
All powers of a path can only use one type of boost (though racial and template paths have powers that are exceptions to this).
So a Knight or Bezerker can only boost with Effort, an Archer or Psion can boost with Focus, a Druid or Sun-Priest can boost with Grace, and magical types boost with Mana. The split seems to be that Effort is for tanks and those with big weapons, Focus seems to be for fast sneaky acrobatty light-weapon/light-armour types. Grace is for those who call on higher (or lower) powers and is split into domains (Light, Darkness, Death, Secrets, Nature, War, etc).

Creating an old-style D&D character is possible, and there is a nice little guide in the back behind the powers:
A paladin is a Knight-(X)Priest with Effort, but a cleric of the same god would be a Knight-(X)Priest with Grace. Monk as Martial-Artist/Psion or Acrobat/Psion or Acrobat/Martial artist is a good change, and the illustrations for the old-school monk are rather brother-tuck of the priory of St.Wushu. Sword-Mages are also possible, just mix a Duelist with some form of wizard. Bards as Song-Warpers/Trickers makes sence as a sort of con-artist psychics who use song and illusion and spend Focus on both.
So a paladin can boost his stances and suchlike, but can't boost his divine Boons, but a cleric couldn't boost his melee attacks but can boost his divine Boons such as healing or holy smites.

Progression:
Each level after 1st you pick a power from one of your three paths.
The power gives you X extra hit points, boosts your defenses, increases stats (if picked at certain levels), etc - as well as giving you an extra attack or utility or skill. I can see a lot of players taking power-attacks/boons/spells just because of the hit-points or feats attached to the ability.
However, the power=character growth could work well. It makes sense that if your puny wizard learns Great Cleave that he should have to bulk up a bit and start eating meat, and a barbarian that starts learning magic should get smarter. A trickster that gains the blessings of a god should learn a little religion, etc.
Feats have been folded in with powers, and some feats are now boostable!
Some feats/powers even gain auto-boosts at 6th/16th/26th level.
At 11th and 21st level you can pick an extra path and gain the benefits of that path (including stat boosts!).
Backgrounds appear at 1st, 11th, and 21st and include things like favoring an implement or weapon, rafts of conditional bonuses, or skill raises. They are a sort of add-on further customization that roll into them 3-4 feats.


All in all:

At nearly 1000 pages for the PHB it is quite hefty (I exaggerate but not by much). The arrangement of the 50-odd paths at the beginning together with lists of powers gives a nice way to quickly flip through paths and make a selection.
The paths have a lot of focus and flavour: Elfs are all about bows and woodland shifting etc, fire wizards can expect lots of fire spells. I really love the wizard stuff. Lots of paths that are just 30 variations on a single spell (Grasping Tentacles!). Two dozen variations on Grasping hand or Fireball/Burning Hands/Fire Shield/Scorching Burst didn't seem exciting at first but they really do act like different spells that feel like they came out of the same spell book. Also even if you go Exemplar by double-picking a path you still have a 3rd path at 1st level to give you added flexability.
Then comes the basic combat rules, then the huge section on powers (nearly half the book!).
I'm disappointed with no Warforged in the PHB but they do show up in the DMG with the bulk of the magical equipment.
Races, or rather racial paths are thin on the ground: Wood-Elf, Blood-Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, Dragonborn, Tiefling, Shifter, Gnome for the PHB, and Warforged, Drow, Changeling, Shardmind, Wilden, Eladrin in the DMG.
Promised are splat books with more sub-types (Elves and Shifters / Dwarves and Goblins, etc) together with more 'class' paths and 'template' paths.

The mechanics are very 4e, but seem quicker to run (no more marking or cursing as far as I can see - though there is now a Lesser Action Curse ability which inflicts conditions). So now you have two things you can do - Move and Act (which can be an extra Move). You can swop a Move or Act for two lesser actions (sheath a weapon + draw a weapon, get a potion out of a pack + drink potion, drink two potions, etc).
The action-trigger mechanic is quite cool, allowing players to jump out of initiative and react to allies actions. By putting an action trigger on another character you can sacrifice part of your turn to act in support of an ally. This can set up chain reactions where the whole party springs into action to back up a player who has just acted. Very cool.
The ability to temporarily jump up in initiative order and to lay out a triggered move and a triggered act on different allies means combat gets more exciting.
The loss of minor actions is offset by the ability to boost (which is what often they were used for anyway) and the ability to swop an 'Act' or a 'Move' action for two 'lesser actions'.
The numbered action-trigger counters are nice, though I'm still unclear on how they work, and what triggers an action anyway? It seems that provided someone is acting (Move or Act) you can activate a trigger on them and act semi-simultaniously to them. Cool, but confusing to me right now, especially where the examples show characters who put triggers on themselves. I guess it saves on record keeping if you just play the markers at the top of the round in initiative order and put them on yourself if you don't want to trigger on someone else. Then you just flip your marker over once you've acted.
I guess it makes sense with the new 'Aid' action. As a lesser action you can give somebody +1 to hit or damage, and get +1 to the same on your turn. So it makes sense for those with lower initiative to put trigger counters on higher initiative characters and grant bonuses and then use their remaining lesser action to do something cool.
Lesser actions can be used by fighters to go into 'stances', by rogue-types to do 'tricks', by priests to use 'blessings' and 'curses' and by wizards for 'cantrips'. I love the fact that a wizard can cast a (weak) never-miss magic missile using a lesser action, so can pump out 4 per turn if he dosn't move. It makes the wizard feel very AD&D.
The stacking conditions are nice, they certainly look like they will speed up combat. Instead of a bazillion conditions now they stack. Goodbye Dazed/Stunned/Slowed/Immobilized. Hello Fazed/Fazed/Fazed/Fazed. Each 'Fazed' stacked gives a penalty to actions (lose an action either Act, Move, or Lesser) and take a culmulative penalty to action rolls. Blinded and Deafened remain but stack with each other (from a little-bit blinded to fully blind and deaf with a huge minus to hit), stacking Hidden replaces 'invisible' and gives a bonus to defences against ranged attacks and perception (a boon to stealthy characters).
Conditions are now all save-ends, which makes things simpler.

I'll miss 4e but Half-Warforged Blood-Elf Psion with the God-blood background here I come!
 

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5EFAN

First Post
We were playing the encounters game, a guy was hanging around watching, we got chatting afterwards, he works for WotC. We asked him why Adventurers vault was out of print, and he showed us the bound beta-test style book thing he had with him.
 




IanB

First Post
Yeah I don't buy it. They wouldn't be sinking cash into 4e digital initiatives if 5e was already in testing.
 

Yeah I don't buy it. They wouldn't be sinking cash into 4e digital initiatives if 5e was already in testing.

He's claiming he's seen the books including artwork. Those books won't exist until a few months before 5e is released.

It doesn't help that a lot of the other stuff he's saying is obvious crap.
 

Obryn

Hero
We were playing the encounters game, a guy was hanging around watching, we got chatting afterwards, he works for WotC. We asked him why Adventurers vault was out of print, and he showed us the bound beta-test style book thing he had with him.
Wow, anonymous guy with 2 posts! That sounds extremely likely, and all my skepticism is gone!

-O
 

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