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D&D 4E Replicating 4e casting in 5e [PEACH]

ChameleonX

Explorer
EDIT: Changes made based on feedback. For the purposes of evaluating these rules, assume that each spell that can be "up-casted" will be considered a separate spell depending on its level. So, for instance, a 3rd-Level Fireball and a 5th-Level Fireball would be treated as two different spells, with each of them able to be cast once per day, etc. Also note that Pact Magic, being already distinct from Spellcasting, will be unaffected by these rules.

I'm working on a project that involves replicating the way magic worked in 4th Edition D&D. To that end, I've come up with the following "variant feature," that would be given to all spellcasting classes. The intent is to capture the basic "feel" of the AEDU system in 5th Edition mechanics, without necessarily having to convert each of the multiple thousands of powers from 4e.

Variant Feature: Weaveless Casting
On Abeir, there is no Weave of magic, and therefore traditional spellcasting is impossible. If you are playing a character that normally obtains the “Spellcasting” class feature from your class or another source, you lose access to that feature when you enter Abeir. Instead, you gain the following variant feature:

Weaveless Casting
You have learned how to cast spells by directly channeling the raw magic that surrounds and permeates the world of Abeir, allowing you to manifest magical effects without many of the requirements and complications of magic on Toril. See Chapter 10 of the Player's Handbook for the general rules of magic, and Chapter 11 of the Player's Handbook for your class's spell list.

Cantrips. At 1st level, you learn two cantrips of your choice from your class spell list. If you are a Ranger, you can choose cantrips from the Druid spell list. If you are a Paladin, you can choose cantrips from the Cleric spell list. When you gain levels in any class that grants this feature, you may replace a cantrip you know with another one from the same spell list.

Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher. At 1st level you know three spells of 1st level from the spell list of your class; one encounter attack spell, one daily attack spell, and one Utility spell (either Encounter or Daily). At levels 3, 7, and 11 you learn an additional encounter attack spell of your choice from the same list. At levels 5, 9, and 20 you learn an additional daily attack spell of your choice from the same list. At levels 6, 10, and 12 you learn a utility spell of your choice from the same list (either Encounter or Daily). Each spell you choose must be of a level you can cast.

Replacing Spells. Each time you gain a level in any class that grants this feature, you may choose to replace a spell you know with a different one from the same spell list. You must replace the spell with the same type of spell (e.g. Encounter Attack, Daily Attack, or Utility spell), and it must be of a level you can cast. You can replace only one spell per level in this way.

For example, if you chose Cure Wounds (1st Level) as your utility spell at 1st level, then you could replace that spell with Cure Wounds (2nd Level) when you reach 3rd level. When you reach 5th level, you could then replace it with Cure Wounds (3rd level), and so forth.

Casting Spells. You can innately cast each spell you know once, without requiring components or expending a spell slot. You regain the ability to cast each "Daily" spell you know when you finish a Long Rest. You regain the ability to cast each "Encounter" spell you know when you finish a Short Rest or a Long Rest.

Bonus Spells. If you would normally receive extra prepared spells from your class or subclass (e.g. a Cleric's Divine Domain, or a Druid's Circle, etc.), those spells are simply added to your list of spells known, and do not count against your normal limit of known spells. You can thereafter replace them as normal.

Wizard Spells. As a Wizard, you have the unique ability to record additional spells in a spell book. You learn two spells, instead of one, each time you gain a new spell from this feature, recording each spell in your spell book. Each time you finish a long rest, you may choose up to four spells of each type (Encounter Attack, Daily Attack, and Utility) from among those recorded in your spell book. These are the spells you are able to cast that day.

Spell Slot Recovery. If your class or another game element (such as a magic item) would allow you to regain expended spell slots, you may instead choose one of the spells you have cast that day, provided it is of the appropriate level. You gain one additional casting of that spell.

Spell Slot Equivalence. If an effect, such as a Paladin's Divine Smite or a Druid's Combat Wild Shape feature requires you to spend a spell slot to activate it, you instead choose a spell that you are able to cast. You expend the use of that spell without casting it, and the feature triggers as if you had expended a spell slot of that spell's level.
For example, if you expend the Aura of Vitality spell to use Divine Smite, your Smite would take effect as if you had expended a 3rd level spell slot.

Max Spell Level. The highest level of spell you can cast is equal to the highest level spell slot your character would have access to using the default spellcasting feature of your class. For example, a 9th level Wizard could cast as high as 5th level spells, while a 6th level wizard would be restricted to 3rd-Level, etc.

Ritual Casting. If the class that granted this feature would normally allow you to cast spells as a ritual, you can do so using this feature, provided the spell in question has the Ritual tag.
 
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NotAYakk

Legend
1. One of a Wizards key feature is having more spells to pick from at any one time. This removes that.
2. There seems to be little benefit to keeping 1st level spells around, as you removed upcasting (until level 11!). Many 5e spells are designed around upcasting.
3. At level 10 you end up with 8 spells (known and per day). From your rules they should all be 5th level spells if unless they have a reason to keep around a lower level one. This is arguably a large power upgrade.
4. Can you "know" the same spell twice?
5. With slots gone, how do features (like flexible casting, smite, arcane recovery) that interact with slots work?
6. How do features, like arcane secrets, subclasses, etc, that interact with spells known work?
7. You need to fix your table headers.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Do you think this accurately reflects the way the AEDU power system worked in 4e (to the extent that that's possible?
Not really, no. You'd probably have to re-write the spell lists a bit, at least, too. One issue is that a daily and an encounter need to be quite different in scope/power, regardless of level, while 5e spells are generally designed as dailies, and just pressed into service as encounters (short rest recharge), as with the Warlock.

That said, you could step back towards 4e - and AD&D - by tightening traditional restrictions on spellcasting. For instance, prepping into slots, or even not being able to prep the same spell twice. AoOs for casting. Concentration to cast, etc...
 
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aco175

Legend
I want to also include where you attack the reflex rather than just having the bad guy make a save. Fortitude as well.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
I want to also include where you attack the reflex rather than just having the bad guy make a save. Fortitude as well.
That is easy. Your Dex defence is 14+Dex bonus + proficiency (optional). Then just make a spell attack.

There are some quirks, like bless adding to your defence randomly, but the odds are the same.
 

Horwath

Legend
All I want is removal of obvious somatic and verbal components from majority of spells.

Only Verbal component of a fireball should be explosion sound that bursts in your face.
And a light whisper from a caster.
 

Coroc

Hero
I am not very versatile with 4e other than that I played a bit of Neverwinter MMORPG,
but my basic understanding is that 4e characters got their at will, encounter and daily powers, no matter if caster or martial.
If you want to get back to that mechanic you got to do it for the martial classes also, otherwise it will be very difficult to balance. As some posters above already pointed out, your first approach causes UP and OP at certain levels compared to as is.
4e pretty much made everybody something like a sorcerer or maybe warlock, more basically everybody was a (pseudo- or real) caster. You want to separate the real casters from the martials somehow for some reason. Maybe you do not like the spell bloat or such.
I suggest to go another, more easy way: Reskin full casting classes to get a (5e) sorcerer like casting scheme but with their original spell list and without the spell points conversion optional rules. Every full caster would be a "sorcerer" in your game then, just with a different spell list.
In that way you can keep martial classes. The only problem yet to solve would be half casters, for simplicity you could just ban them respectively use one of the spell-less Ranger variants and for Pally you would have to homebrew something. EK and AT could be easily banned or also house ruled somehow, but the game in itself would stay consistent and recognizable as 5e.
 

Coroc

Hero
All I want is removal of obvious somatic and verbal components from majority of spells.

Only Verbal component of a fireball should be explosion sound that bursts in your face.
And a light whisper from a caster.

I think you can house rule that without causing to much imbalance. In my opinion that falls into the same tolerance limits like stealth which is ruled differently by every DM, whereas it has less impact than e.g. stealth variations have for a class that relies on it.
 


That is easy. Your Dex defence is 14+Dex bonus + proficiency (optional). Then just make a spell attack.

There are some quirks, like bless adding to your defence randomly, but the odds are the same.
You can have PCs make saves and badguys have defences.

That way the PCs just do most of the rolling. (And it's often easier if you minimise the changes to the player facing side of things).
 

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