D&D (2024) Playtest Packet 6: They knocked Druid out of the Park

[Gorck]

In my opinion, Druids tend to be at one with nature and revere it. Monstrosities are at odds with the natural order of things and are a bastardization of fauna*. I would prefer that Druids only be allowed to transform into Beasts, no matter what Doric did in the movie (although, a specific subclass, like Moon, for other wild shape forms would be acceptable).

*according to the Monster Manual (p. 7), "Monstrosities are monsters in the strictest sense - frightening creatures that are not ordinary, nor truly natural, and almost never benign."

 

[Vael]

If we have to do MM scraping, I'd just sooner move the Owlbear to Beast than give Druids access to non-beast statblocks.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

In my opinion, Druids tend to be at one with nature and revere it. Monstrosities are at odds with the natural order of things and are a bastardization of fauna*. I would prefer that Druids only be allowed to transform into Beasts, no matter what Doric did in the movie (although, a specific subclass, like Moon, for other wild shape forms would be acceptable).

*according to the Monster Manual (p. 7), "Monstrosities are monsters in the strictest sense - frightening creatures that are not ordinary, nor truly natural, and almost never benign."

In my home game, non-malignant, non-magical chimeric gryphs (like Owlbears, Griffons, Hippogriffs, Winged Snakes, Polar Bear Dogs, Turtleducks, and the like) are Beasts, not Monstrosities.

 

[mellored]

letting the Druid use monstrosities instead of adding 6 versions of wolves to the MM certainly would alleviate my concern, as that means there are no 6 wolves in it

6 wolf-like creatures.
Wolf -> dire wolf -> guardian wolf -> thunder wolf -> shadow wolf -> Fenrir.

Irrelevant of their categories.

I’m curious what monstrosities would be a problem?

Haven't looked though the monstrosities. But you shouldn't be able to turn into a fey pixie for instance.

And I don't want to hamper the devs by making them double check all the creatures against the druid.

 

[Clint_L]

In my home game, non-malignant, non-magical chimeric gryphs (like Owlbears, Griffons, Hippogriffs, Winged Snakes, Polar Bear Dogs, Turtleducks, and the like) are Beasts, not Monstrosities.

Same, and I suspect that quite a few folks home-brew the class this way. And obviously we see it in the D&D movie, so clearly the writers were like "It's a D&D movie - why can't the beast be an owl bear, because that is way cool?". I think WotC needs to acknowledge that there is a big difference between a displacer beast and a Yuan Ti Abomination. In the magical D&D world, some beasts are a little funkier than in ours.

Letting moon druids have access to beast-like monstrosities would solve the perennial problem that they run out of options as they level up. Plus, it's way more fun.

And...let's face it, moon druids are getting some form of nerf - specifically to their insanely high potential HP pool. Plus losing elemental forms, which make no thematic sense but really buoy the subclass up at the middle levels. Nerfs suck. But giving them access to the thing a lot of folks really want, beast-like monstrosities, would go a long way to make that better, especially if the mechanics are implemented to keep those shapes competitive all the way to top levels.

Give up on most of the moonbeam stuff. Yes, we get it, Moon Druid/moonbeam. It's a motif. But it's just not very fun. Not fun like wildshaping into an owlbear and ripping someone's face off. Give the people what they want.

Edit: I'm going to add a list of beast-like monstrosities that are already in the official rules and that I think Moon Druids should get access to, or at least to a curated list chosen from.

 

[Stalker0]

I don't consider more beast in the monster manual bad use of pages.

And at this point, it's closer to rage than a template. You don't change much.

Melee damage, harder to kill, some Str utility, and you can't cast spells.

The compromise might be to add in a “dire note” for each creature.

Dire: gain +x to attack , damage and hit points. CR increases to 6.

 

[Gorck]

Letting moon druids have access to beast-like monstrosities would solve the perennial problem that they run out of options as they level up. Plus, it's way more fun.

And...let's face it, moon druids are getting some form of nerf - specifically to their insanely high potential HP pool. Plus losing elemental forms, which make no thematic sense but really buoy the subclass up at the middle levels. Nerfs suck. But giving them access to the thing a lot of folks really want, beast-like monstrosities, would go a long way to make that better, especially if the mechanics are implemented to keep those shapes competitive all the way to top levels.

Not all Monstrosities are created equal. Some are really out there, while others are similar to regular Beasts. An owl is a beast and a bear is a beast, so an owlbear isn't that crazy. I could also see a Druid wild shaping into a Griffon, a Death Dog, or a Shadow Mastiff. But things like Gricks or The Wretched are a bridge too far for me. I wish there was another category between Beasts and Monstrosities for those in-betweeners.

EDIT: add things like Hook Horror, Umber Hulk, and Roper to that list of extreme Monstrosities.

 

[Clint_L]

Beast-like (i.e. low intelligence) monstrosities, setting aside unique creatures, infant/young forms, swarms, and reduced threat versions:

CR 0
Tressym

CR 1/4
Bone Whelk*
Male Steeder

CR 1/2
Amphisbaena*
Cockatrice*
Darkmantle
Piercer
Rust Monster*

CR 1
Crag Cat*
Death Dog
Female Steeder
Hippogriff*
Ice Toad*

CR 2
Ankheg*
Aurumvorax
Carrion Crawler*
Grick
Griffon*
Shadow Mastiff*
Shell Shark*

CR 3
Assassin Bug
Basilisk*
Cave Fisher
Displacer Beast*
Giant Ice Toad*
Manticore (marginal - int. 7 - though that is the same as a giant ape)
Owlbear*
Phase Spider*
Shadow Mastiff Alpha
Trapper
Winter Wolf*

CR 4
Aurumvorax Den Leader
Decapus*
Girallon
Guardian Wolf*
Kamadan*

CR 5
Bulette*
Catoblepas*
Gorgon*
Roper (marginal - int 7)
Sea Lion*

CR 6
Chimera*
Gloomstalker*

CR 7
Grick Alpha
Liondrake*
Swavain Basilisk*

CR 8
Aeolian Reverser (marginal - int 6)
Horizonback Tortoise*
Hydra*

Edit: asterixed the ones I really like.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Beast-like (i.e. low intelligence) monstrosities, setting aside unique creatures, infant/young forms, swarms, and reduced threat versions:

CR 0
Tressym

CR 1/4
Bone Whelk*
Male Steeder

CR 1/2
Amphisbaena*
Cockatrice*
Darkmantle
Piercer
Rust Monster*

CR 1
Crag Cat*
Death Dog
Female Steeder
Hippogriff*
Ice Toad*

CR 2
Ankheg*
Aurumvorax
Carrion Crawler*
Grick
Griffon*
Shadow Mastiff*
Shell Shark*

CR 3
Assassin Bug
Basilisk*
Cave Fisher
Displacer Beast*
Giant Ice Toad*
Manticore (marginal - int. 7 - though that is the same as a giant ape)
Owlbear*
Phase Spider*
Shadow Mastiff Alpha
Trapper
Winter Wolf*

CR 4
Aurumvorax Den Leader
Decapus*
Girallon
Guardian Wolf*
Kamadan*

CR 5
Bulette*
Catoblepas*
Gorgon*
Roper (marginal - int 7)
Sea Lion*

CR 6
Chimera*
Gloomstalker*

CR 7
Grick Alpha
Liondrake*
Swavain Basilisk*

CR 8
Aeolian Reverser (marginal - int 6)
Horizonback Tortoise*
Hydra*

Edit: asterixed the ones I really like.

I, on the other hand, don't want any "Beasts" to have supernatural abilities. No Chimeras or Gorgons or Displacer Beasts.

 

[mellored]

The compromise might be to add in a “dire note” for each creature.

Dire: gain +x to attack , damage and hit points. CR increases to 6.

So... a template.

I, on the other hand, don't want any "Beasts" to have supernatural abilities. No Chimeras or Gorgons or Displacer Beasts.

IMO, the moon druid should get more than just to bigger numbers. They should get new abilities as well, same as all the other classes.

Thus. I am a fan of using at least a bit of supernatural.