D&D 3E/3.5 Playing in a DND3E game with no magic items

[Quinn]

Greetings brother and sister dnders.

My game master has the Idea of not giving out an magic items that would give pluses to attack or defense. So, we will more than likely never see anything beyond masterwork. That is: no +1, +2, +3, .... magic items.

We are at 5th level now. My AC is 15 with studded leather masterwork leather. I am playing a barbarian.

I figure by 10th level I will still at AC 15, maybe AC 17, if he finally gives something to us.

I tell him that at 10th level at this rate, i will be just as easy to hit as I was at 3rd level, but he says i will have more hit points by the and I will last longer. My argument to that is that by 10th level we will be fighting 7th level critters that have bonuses to HIT and DAMAGE!

Can some one come up with some kind of rational argument that I could give him telling us to give us some kind of defense bonus. I have sent him 3 links to different problems when you run a low magic campaign, and how games like wheel of time fixes the defens problems.

Maybe when they put out the new DMG this summer they can make some kind of comments in the book about running low magic campaigns.

His idea of a magic item is to give further fire or cold protection. Like 5pts.

Any Takers?

Well, low magic should mean low magic across the board. If you can't have magic items, then the opponents you face should be scaled to take this into account. No DR 20/+2 demons unless you have a way to reasonably fight such a demon.

If your DM does this however, then I don't really see the problem except its not your style of play.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I'm of two opinions.

First, stop whining. Nothing wrong with a low-magic 3E game, as long as your DM can adjust.

True, but there's a hell lot to adjust.

CRs of various creatures will go up,

I say, some stuff has to go then. DR /+x can't work when there's no +X. It's either /holy, or /silver, like there will be in 3.5e, or its /-, in which case the DM will go up so much it hit your feet.

and in general mages will outpace fighter-types more unless their spell selection is restricted.

You have to do that, or you can get rid of the old gods, since their former servants become the new ones... And that feeling of inferiority will be even worse than in Cthulu.

Second, your DM doesn't sound like he's adjusting. So you *should* be whining, and I take it all back.

Whining won't help with that type of guy.

I get the feeling he really doesn't understand that in 3E, unfortunately, magic items make the man.

Not as harsh as that, but somehow true: You're not really powerful without magic, but you still need your own power. So you need to be well round-up.

They certainly make the fighter, especially at high levels. Like your own. You're going to get chewed up and but good. You may end up simply having to leave the campaign -- he definitely sounds like a wanker.

I'm always for a last reasonable talk, even though that is often in vain.

Until then, I'd just charge into combat blindly, get mowed down, die . . . and then roll up a non-meat character. Or at least someone that can wear heavy armor.

Paladin might not be a bad call. You get spells, you have good reason to have full plate . . .

Or cleric. If he didn't change the rules for enchanting with spells, you'll rock.
In such a case, I'd be even tempted to get a smack character to show the DM the error of his ways.

 

[Darklone]

I played this kind of game as DM and player. It can work. I agree it's a lot of trouble for the DM to adjust everything.

And well... in one group the DM didn't adjust anything. Cleric ruled, fighter survived but had superstats, ... have you ever fought two kytons without weapons of +2 enchantment and spellcasters without spells or no luck against SR? It ended somehow similar to the kytons pinned on the floor by three player characters while the heaviest character jumped on the hilt of the sword that was set on the kytons throat...

 

[MadScientist]

The major problem ISN'T that - it's the fact that a lack of magic which isn't reliant on spellcasters means that the comparative power level of a spellcaster goes through the roof.

Take a look at some of the threads debating how 'overpowered' the cleric is when he spells himself up. Now take all the magic items out of the comparisons... The cleric ends up vastly superior.

I agree whole-heartedly with this!! Unless spellcasters are toned down ALOT, the fighting classes will always play second note. At higher levels they will be close to useless compared to primary spellcasters.

I think the opposition is easy to adjust. Adjusting the classes to make them balanced in a low magic campaign is the real challenge and it sounds like the DM here hasn't considered this very much.

 

[magnas_veritas]

It ended somehow similar to the kytons pinned on the floor by three player characters while the heaviest character jumped on the hilt of the sword that was set on the kytons throat...

For future reference, do the same, but with a pillow instead of a sword. Outsiders still have to breathe. Doesn't work against undead or golems, though.

Brad

 

[RigaMortus]

Purchase some Admantium weapons and armor. They give non-magical pluses to hit, damage and AC. Of course, they are much more money that a magic weapon/armor of the same type.

 

[Endur]

I have the same idea

I've actually been thinking about the same idea. The next non-RPGA game I GM will not have any magic items.

Essentially, I'm going to eliminate all magic item creation feats. The only magic items that exist will be artifacts (for story purposes).

Many fantasy novels are "low-magic" worlds. Conan, for example, never had any magic items. If there was a magic item in one of his adventures, it was there for one story as a plot device to defeat the antagonist.

I think the party will be fine. Its up to the GM to "fine-tune" threats to fit the party. i.e. I have played in campaigns where the party faced threats that were the EL of the party, campaigns where the party faced threats that were always 2 to 4 ELs above the party, campaigns where the party always had a higher EL than the monsters, and campaigns where the GM didn't care about the ELs.

Tom

My game master has the Idea of not giving out an magic items that would give pluses to attack or defense. So, we will more than likely never see anything beyond masterwork. That is: no +1, +2, +3, .... magic items.

 

[Endur]

In case you are interested,

Here is a link to a non-magic item epic level Barbarian. My version of non-magic Conan (25th level Barbarian). And yes, the high level Conan has basically the same AC that the low level Conan had.


http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/hosted/adilbrand/conan/conan25a.htm

Tom

We are at 5th level now. My AC is 15 with studded leather masterwork leather. I am playing a barbarian.

I figure by 10th level I will still at AC 15, maybe AC 17, if he finally gives something to us.

 

[Endur]

Non-Magic Defense

Also, there are lots of non-magic defenses for fighter types.

Expertise/Fight Defensively/Dodge
Use a Tower Shield
Heavy Armor
dwarf/gnome vs. Giant

Prestige classes
Duelist
Devoted Defender
Dwarven Defender
etc.

 

[Forrester]

Re: Re: Playing in a DND3E game with no magic items

In case you are interested,

Here is a link to a non-magic item epic level Barbarian. My version of non-magic Conan (25th level Barbarian). And yes, the high level Conan has basically the same AC that the low level Conan had.


http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/hosted/adilbrand/conan/conan25a.htm

Tom

Re my "magic items make the fighter" quote -- note that in a one-on-one battle, a fully-equipped 16th level fighter would most likely kick your 25th level Conan's ass.

Up, down, right, left, and sideways into next week.