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PbP DM techniques...
- Thread starter ryryguy
- Start date
JoeNotCharles
First Post
gimp.org
TwoHeadsBarking
First Post
Just do a google search for "gimp". What could go wrong with that?
Oh, so a google search for "gimp" does focus mainly on what you're looking for. How
Mal Malenkirk
First Post
As you pointed out, I ask the players to roll the OA (and I give the OA stats of the monsters) when they triggered one. And I never used goblins!
Kidding aside, the number of truly problematic situation is far smaller than you'd think. I ran a level 12 adventure and even then, with the more exotic abilities, I hardly had a problem. The number of abilities that, once triggered, would need you to retcon a whole round is... well, I have yet to find one! And given the pace of PbP, when a problematic ability crops up, you see it coming a mile away and have plenty of time to prepare.
I guess what I mean is that there are fewer problems than you'd expect before trying, and that I improvise an ad hoc solution to any problem that I encounter. And at a PbP's snail pace, it ain't that hard!
ryryguy
First Post
Thanks for all the responses.
I can readily believe that the interrupt/surprise situations don't come up all that often.
Let me run one by you though and ask how you'd handle it. Say there's a trap in a corridor, where the first PC to move through an area triggers it, and it changes the terrain somehow. Maybe it releases a poison gas cloud that fills an area of the corridor. Several PC's make posts which involve moving their characters through this area. (This could happen even if you were enforcing initiative order, since several PCs can act and post in sequence in that case too.)
The first one through triggers the trap, and if the others take their posted mves they'll be going through the gas. Do you just rewind and allow them to redo their moves?
Another thing about rewinding like this in general. How do you typically handle rolls for moves that get retconned? Do you keep the rolls as long as the target and powers and stuff stay the same? I worry about things like, the original posted roll would have hit, but if you retcon the move for some reason that causes you to lose CA from flanking, that roll does not hit. Does that affect the player's decision whether or not to retcon? Or, say, you rolled a critical hit. Does that make you want to suck it up and move through the gas anyway, but if the outcome of the attack was still unknown, you might act differently?
For these reasons I'd almost think you should just always reroll if the DM announces the option to rewind, whether the player takes it or not... though that is still less than ideal. It will really stink from the player's POV if he's forced to reroll that critical hit even though he didn't want to change his action.
I can readily believe that the interrupt/surprise situations don't come up all that often.
Let me run one by you though and ask how you'd handle it. Say there's a trap in a corridor, where the first PC to move through an area triggers it, and it changes the terrain somehow. Maybe it releases a poison gas cloud that fills an area of the corridor. Several PC's make posts which involve moving their characters through this area. (This could happen even if you were enforcing initiative order, since several PCs can act and post in sequence in that case too.)
The first one through triggers the trap, and if the others take their posted mves they'll be going through the gas. Do you just rewind and allow them to redo their moves?
Another thing about rewinding like this in general. How do you typically handle rolls for moves that get retconned? Do you keep the rolls as long as the target and powers and stuff stay the same? I worry about things like, the original posted roll would have hit, but if you retcon the move for some reason that causes you to lose CA from flanking, that roll does not hit. Does that affect the player's decision whether or not to retcon? Or, say, you rolled a critical hit. Does that make you want to suck it up and move through the gas anyway, but if the outcome of the attack was still unknown, you might act differently?
For these reasons I'd almost think you should just always reroll if the DM announces the option to rewind, whether the player takes it or not... though that is still less than ideal. It will really stink from the player's POV if he's forced to reroll that critical hit even though he didn't want to change his action.
Mal Malenkirk
First Post
I try to avoid painting myself in a corner.
In the example you gave, I wouldn't have used a trap that triggers the exact moment the PC stepped on it in the first place, precisely because of the potential problems it could cause.
I if I wanted to use that type of trap, I'd rule that it takes a few moments before the cloud gas really kicks in (Think of those mines in movies where the characters step on it and they have the time to go 'oops' before it actually blows!).
Conveniently enough, a few moments would mean whenever I get to posting next. Therefore there would have been no retcon at all.
Yeah, that means I never used a pit-trap style of obstacle so far. But hey, I don't think my adventures have suffered from it.
---
Also, I check my thread fairly regularly. A lot of retcon I did occured before every PCs have acted. If I see a problem, I stop it before it snowballs.
Considering rolls, in a retcon I keep the same roll and assign the PCs that need retconning the most logical course of action, trying to preserve the original intent.
My preference would be to let a PC do a complete replay of his turn only if he had expanded a major ressource in a way that has become illogical after a retcon.
But the thing is, in 10 fights I DMed on EN world this way, such a situation never occured! So it's kind of hypothetical to me.
In the example you gave, I wouldn't have used a trap that triggers the exact moment the PC stepped on it in the first place, precisely because of the potential problems it could cause.
I if I wanted to use that type of trap, I'd rule that it takes a few moments before the cloud gas really kicks in (Think of those mines in movies where the characters step on it and they have the time to go 'oops' before it actually blows!).
Conveniently enough, a few moments would mean whenever I get to posting next. Therefore there would have been no retcon at all.
Yeah, that means I never used a pit-trap style of obstacle so far. But hey, I don't think my adventures have suffered from it.
---
Also, I check my thread fairly regularly. A lot of retcon I did occured before every PCs have acted. If I see a problem, I stop it before it snowballs.
Considering rolls, in a retcon I keep the same roll and assign the PCs that need retconning the most logical course of action, trying to preserve the original intent.
My preference would be to let a PC do a complete replay of his turn only if he had expanded a major ressource in a way that has become illogical after a retcon.
But the thing is, in 10 fights I DMed on EN world this way, such a situation never occured! So it's kind of hypothetical to me.
covaithe
Explorer
While we're all asking questions of Mal, I've got one. How would you handle this situation, which came up in Closed Eye recently: Tander posts an action, which includes an active perception check to spot a hidden monster (which succeeds), and which includes a readied attack that would provoke an OA from the hidden monster, which he wouldn't have done if he'd known his check succeeded. Before I get around to posting, several other players post various actions.
What I did was allow Tander himself to change his action, but kept the actions from the other players, on the grounds that this was sort of all happening at once, too fast for them to react to Tander's (anticipated) warning. I think that worked out okay, but I still had to pause the action and wait for a (minimal) rewind.
What I did was allow Tander himself to change his action, but kept the actions from the other players, on the grounds that this was sort of all happening at once, too fast for them to react to Tander's (anticipated) warning. I think that worked out okay, but I still had to pause the action and wait for a (minimal) rewind.
Mal Malenkirk
First Post
http://www.enworld.org/forum/living...ii-dm-covaithe-judge-garyh-4.html#post4880306
If that's the action you are talking about:
The PC had just made a perception check then he told you what he wanted to do with the rest of his actions if he spotted something.
Since he still had his move left, I would have used it to shift him away so he could perform his intended action without getting OA.
If he had spent his move action previously but was a character with a comparable melee option, I would have substituted the power and kept the same roll.
If he had neither a move action left nor a decent melee attack to substitute for it, then I would have done the same as you did and done a minor rewind.
---
Basically, I try to execute the stated intent of the player without screwing him. In this case, he wanted to spot something and wack it so any alterations to his stated intention that did not involve expanding an encounter/daily or getting unnecessarily hurt would have been fine by me.
I only go back for new instructions if the old ones are completely FUBAR.
If that's the action you are talking about:
The PC had just made a perception check then he told you what he wanted to do with the rest of his actions if he spotted something.
Since he still had his move left, I would have used it to shift him away so he could perform his intended action without getting OA.
If he had spent his move action previously but was a character with a comparable melee option, I would have substituted the power and kept the same roll.
If he had neither a move action left nor a decent melee attack to substitute for it, then I would have done the same as you did and done a minor rewind.
---
Basically, I try to execute the stated intent of the player without screwing him. In this case, he wanted to spot something and wack it so any alterations to his stated intention that did not involve expanding an encounter/daily or getting unnecessarily hurt would have been fine by me.
I only go back for new instructions if the old ones are completely FUBAR.
Last edited:
JoeNotCharles
First Post
The big thing, I think (which my main adventure has utterly failed at, being on an isolated island...) is to build in a way to add new characters if somebody drops out. If it's set in Daunton it's easy to just swing by the tavern for reinforcements, but if it's somewhere else in the world you may need to be more creative.
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