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Open Gaming Should Mean Open

If you'll only accept "hard numbers," then you should be asking Paizo themselves what their sales figures are. I'm sure they won't mind sharing them with you. :p

As for why I think their use of open virality has been good for their company, rather than bad, I suppose we can skip right past the whole "if it was hurting their bottom line, they wouldn't keep doing it (to the point of creating their own license to enable it and then voluntarily publishing under that)" and instead skip right to the correlation between them being one of the biggest and most successful tabletop RPG companies out there while also making 100% of the new rules they make open and viral. It wasn't a coincidence that, during the OGL crisis last year, they were (as far as we know) the company that benefited the most, selling out of months worth of products in weeks. They were also the strongest supporter of the OGL, announcing that they'd fight for it in court if they had to and subsequently their intent to make their own open, viral license.

You don't get to be that successful if, as was declared earlier in the thread, open virality makes it impossible for professional writers to be professionals (i.e. that it undercuts their economic viability).

I think the contention may be just a matter of what is or isn't free game to just reprint when it comes to writing content third party.

Eg, its a pain in the ass to have to tiptoe through the tulips to not accidentally print something you legally can't, when its something like a stat block format or a specific wording.

Granted I'm not a blood-sucking vampire lawyer, but if it were me and I wanted something to just be open to 3rd parties, Creative Commons is just the way to go. Reprint whatever and attribute.

Its already a meme when would be developers, 3rd party or otherwise, get all anxious about people taking their ideas. Pretty much never happens and even if it did and you had measurable financial harm from it, its still going to be negligible and would be easily sussed out.
 

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mamba

Legend
If you'll only accept "hard numbers," then you should be asking Paizo themselves what their sales figures are.
they did not make the claim, you did ;)

skip right to the correlation between them being one of the biggest and most successful tabletop RPG companies out there while also making 100% of the new rules they make open and viral.
I am sure that has nothing to do with the fallout of 4e at all…

It wasn't a coincidence that, during the OGL crisis last year
similarity to 5e and already pretty big? ;)

They were also the strongest supporter of the OGL, announcing that they'd fight for it in court if they had to
they are also one of the biggest licensees, I am sure that is not related…

You don't get to be that successful if, as was declared earlier in the thread, open virality makes it impossible for professional writers to be professionals
the question was are you more successful or less, not can you still survive despite the license / full SRD
 

bedir than

Full Moon Storyteller
You keep saying this so I want to know what you mean. Living wages to whom? In what aspects of the company? Are they skirting the law, or are they headquartered in an area where costs of living are astronomical. Are you equally concerned with what WotC pays? Do you even know?
Yes, of course I know what two companies in Washington state pay. They're both required by law to list it.

WotC pays above average for social media managers in the area and their designers are paid more than that.
Paizo pays below the area's living wage and most of their people work a second job as writers on their products in order to make more money.
 


Reynard

Legend
Supporter
Yes, of course I know what two companies in Washington state pay. They're both required by law to list it.

WotC pays above average for social media managers in the area and their designers are paid more than that.
Paizo pays below the area's living wage and most of their people work a second job as writers on their products in order to make more money.
Excellent. I'd love some numbers.

How much less does Paizo pay than WotC for equivalent positions? How does that number relate to how much money each company makes? How does it relate to their hiring practices and requirements for positions?

I'm being serious: if you can show that Paizo is intentionally lowballing salaries, I would be very interested in knowing that. I do like to put my money where I feel okay about it, ethically speaking (for example, I don't give WotC money). So, please, if you can make a case and feel strongly about it, please do.
 

Remathilis

Legend
This project did indeed include pregenerated characters.

That's the price you pay for using OGL or CC. You want access to ALL of WotC's toys, right down the lore? That's what DM's Guild is fore. People conviently forget WotC gives away the store in exchange for exclusivity rights. If that is unacceptable, either a.) go without or b.) reinvent the wheel.
 

Reynard

Legend
Supporter
That's the price you pay for using OGL or CC. You want access to ALL of WotC's toys, right down the lore? That's what DM's Guild is fore. People conviently forget WotC gives away the store in exchange for exclusivity rights. If that is unacceptable, either a.) go without or b.) reinvent the wheel.
I love it when people completely ignore the point that this is not necessary at all and that multiple companies have proven that you can both support Open gaming in a real way and continue to be successful.
 

bedir than

Full Moon Storyteller
Excellent. I'd love some numbers.

How much less does Paizo pay than WotC for equivalent positions? How does that number relate to how much money each company makes? How does it relate to their hiring practices and requirements for positions?

I'm being serious: if you can show that Paizo is intentionally lowballing salaries, I would be very interested in knowing that. I do like to put my money where I feel okay about it, ethically speaking (for example, I don't give WotC money). So, please, if you can make a case and feel strongly about it, please do.
Paizo salaries have gone up since they unionized.

Right now I can't do a direct comparison, as the only open position at Paizo (test engineer at 53k a year) doesn't have an equal at Wizards (they have one that's pretty close, but I'd have to find the temp agency they use to have the salary listed which is very ridic).

The cost of living in the Seattle metro area is rather absurdly high. Redmond is higher than most.
 

Reynard

Legend
Supporter
Paizo salaries have gone up since they unionized.
As they should. That is why we organize.
Right now I can't do a direct comparison, as the only open position at Paizo (test engineer at 53k a year) doesn't have an equal at Wizards (they have one that's pretty close, but I'd have to find the temp agency they use to have the salary listed which is very ridic).
That's okay. I wasn't playing gotcha. I honestly was interested. I don't know what resource you were pointing to when you said one could check pay in Washington.
The cost of living in the Seattle metro area is rather absurdly high. Redmond is higher than most.
Everywhere is horrible but I have heard Seattle is bad. San Francisco, too. I do think there is a point at which you have to cut employers some slack, though -- it isn't as if employers create the housing crisis. That's most venture capitalist parasites.
 

mamba

Legend
It is worse than that. @mamba is asking you to prove "with hard data" that Paizo would not have made more money NOT opening their content the way they did. It is, of course, impossible to do such a thing, and they know it.
I mean, hard numbers would be great, but I agree getting them is unlikely, so I will have to settle for getting the best case you can make. Notice the ‘I prefer anything you can offer over what so far appears to be pure speculation’ in my post…

If you make a claim without being able to make a case then maybe do not make the claim. If you actually can back it up, great…
 

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