D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Micah Sweet]

I've seen some freeform stuff done so I think its possible, just it needs to be carefully made as its incredibly easy to veer one way or the other.

But its going to be complex no matter how you do it, and probably not exactly "hey its D&D the easy RPG that everyone's heard of and you can play easily" material

Not something I personally am ever really looking for.

 

[FrogReaver]

I specifically said that you make the casting stat selectable in my idea.

not in the post I quoted…

I’m not opposed to that idea in general though, so long as the spell book full caster doesn’t start casting off charisma.

 

[Shardstone]

The thing is any of these changes we are talking about must assume some sort of serious edition or half edition revamp. We already know that the 5.5 sorcerer isn't substantially altered, so we realistically are probably talking about sixth edition.

Or alternatively this is just context free talk about our design preferences, as WotC is not gonna listen any of us anyway.

Fair.

 

[FrogReaver]

Trouble is you don't want to go giving all the good gish spells to the full casters. As seen in the playtest, this just results in the full casters being able to martial better than martials and half casters.

I’m fine with blade singers, blade pact warlocks, valor, swords and whispers bards being gishes.

I’ve not really seen any of those comparable to true martials and half casters in the level 1-10 range (when it comes to doing martial things.)

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Because the original vision of the sorcerer back in 3e was "wizard, but with different casting mechanics and a slightly different narrative". Go back to that and make it one class. If you really like the narrative of the playtest sorcerer (and it was quite cool), make that a different class.

Maybe also we don't assume there are only two ways to address an issue. Spectrum is spectrum.

But that works even better for the Bard, who can basically be third, middle part of the spectrum, relying on either intelligence or charisma.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

It is a matter of opinion which would be better, but it is blindingly obviously that the latter is simpler by far. Jettisoning a class takes no effort at all, whereas designing good and compelling class mechanics is actually a lot of hard work. If it was easy we would have it already.

It isn't just "jettisoning a class."

You keep saying that you can jettison it without anything of value being lost.

THAT is the thing that is a huge--and highly dubious--effort.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But that works even better for the Bard, who can basically be third, middle part of the spectrum, relying on either intelligence or charisma.

I suppose that's true, but honestly I don't like bard as a full caster and am uninterested in their 5e incarnation. I really wish 5e hadn't up-gunned them, because now I can't turn it back without a player riot (they unsurprisingly love bards).

 

[Micah Sweet]

It isn't just "jettisoning a class."

You keep saying that you can jettison it without anything of value being lost.

THAT is the thing that is a huge--and highly dubious--effort.

They didn't say you don't lose anything if value by jettisoning a class, they said it took no effort. And it really doesn’t, it's just that there are consequences.

 

[Remathilis]

I suppose that's true, but honestly I don't like bard as a full caster and am uninterested in their 5e incarnation. I really wish 5e hadn't up-gunned them, because now I can't turn it back without a player riot (they unsurprisingly love bards).

But what do you give bards in exchange? Bards already get good skill use and can get combat abilities, and bardic inspiration only goes so far. Further, 5e doesn't like handling +1 bonuses (a design issue that doomed the warlord) so it's not like you can have them be buff machines.

We all agree the 3e bard was mediocre, and in 4e everyone was a full caster, so there isn't much you can do with bard if you plan on keeping it viable.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It isn't just "jettisoning a class."

You keep saying that you can jettison it without anything of value being lost.

THAT is the thing that is a huge--and highly dubious--effort.

Yeah, that's the wizard's place.