OD&D Mixing OD&D with 4E: Witness the Folly!

[CleverNickName]

In the spirit of the new management, I thought it would be fun to discuss the combining of 4E with OD&D. I concede that there are two very different points of view on this topic, and I'd like to hear from 'em both!

For the 4E lovers, if you were going to houserule OD&D, and if you could only use three elements from 4th Edition, which three would you choose? What three rules, classes, races, monsters, dice mechanics, weapons, or features would you use to convert your OD&D game into the Best Game Evar?

For the 4E haters, if you were going to houserule OD&D in such a way as to make it absolutely and completely unplayable on any level, which three would you choose? What three components of 4E would destroy all that you love about OD&D forever? Remember, you have to limit yourself to only three elements of the 4E game, such as rules, classes, races, monsters, dice mechanics, weapons, or features.

Remember kids, only three. And those clever responses of "the three core books," "everything, everything, and everything," and so forth are not particularly clever, after all. We looked into it, and discovered that they are actually quite lame. So don't be lame, mkay?

 

[CleverNickName]

Recipe for disaster

I like to play the One True Game on occasion...although my definition of it varies somewhat from that of the new owner of the site. The oldest version of D&D that I own is the Basic D&D Boxed Set. I still play 3.5E most of the time, but every now and then I like to drop some six-siders, roll up a dwarf, and crawl through the Keep on the Borderlands like old times.

So, if I were going to pick three things from 4E to absolutely ruin my trip down memory lane, I would choose:

1. Action points. We used to smack people for fudging their rolls, and now they want to make it LEGAL?

2. Dragonborn. These were never intended to be "good guys."

3. Shifting. I remember the sad, sad day when 3.5E forced me to break down and buy a wet-erase battle mat. I never forgave them for making all of my dungeon rooms into units of 5' squares...and now they have reduced my MOVEMENT into units of 5' squares as well?!

 

[CleverNickName]

Hmm. I thought I was posting this in the 4E forum. Odd.

 

[Dausuul]

In the spirit of the new management, I thought it would be fun to discuss the combining of 4E with OD&D. I concede that there are two very different points of view on this topic, and I'd like to hear from 'em both!

For the 4E lovers, if you were going to houserule OD&D, and if you could only use three elements from 4th Edition, which three would you choose? What three rules, classes, races, monsters, dice mechanics, weapons, or features would you use to convert your OD&D game into the Best Game Evar?

#1: Core mechanic (d20 + stat mod + 1/2 level + special modifiers versus 10 + stat mod + 1/2 level + special modifiers), replacing all attack rolls, saving throws, and so forth.
#2: At-will powers for everybody. Fighters should not be boring and wizards should not run out of spells.
#3: Per-encounter powers for everybody, because the at-will stuff gets tedious if you can just spam it.

 

[jaelis]

Three things to include:
- stinkpots... very old school
- a rolling boulder trap... heck yeah!
- being able to fight demigods... sure we all did it, but there weren't any rules for it then.

Things that would ruin the fun:
- at will abilities... old school is about making things up, not about having a sensible list of things to do every turn.
- rogues... because they are thieves, damn it!
- square fireballs... 'nuff said.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

How to ruin OD&D

1. Golden Wyvern Adept
2. Dragonborn boobs
3. cool

 

[Imban]

In the spirit of the new management, I thought it would be fun to discuss the combining of 4E with OD&D. I concede that there are two very different points of view on this topic, and I'd like to hear from 'em both!

For the 4E lovers, if you were going to houserule OD&D, and if you could only use three elements from 4th Edition, which three would you choose? What three rules, classes, races, monsters, dice mechanics, weapons, or features would you use to convert your OD&D game into the Best Game Evar?

1) The core d20 system's conceits of most everything being a d20 roll and high numbers always being good.
2) The ability score generation rules. I'm a big fan of rolling for character creation, and glad it's still in the 4e rules, but I enjoy high stats, which 3d6 in order doesn't exactly give.
3) The skill system, probably. I liked the 3e one better, but I think I'd enjoy older versions of D&D better with a proper skill system.

For the 4E haters, if you were going to houserule OD&D in such a way as to make it absolutely and completely unplayable on any level, which three would you choose? What three components of 4E would destroy all that you love about OD&D forever? Remember, you have to limit yourself to only three elements of the 4E game, such as rules, classes, races, monsters, dice mechanics, weapons, or features.

1) The decreased emphasis on giving us the tools to simulate a fantasy world over game balance and what some designer or web pundit thinks will be fun at my table. It's my #1 reason for not being a fan of 4e, and it'd change the feel of OD&D away from what I want. To be fair, this is more of a philosophy and a set of rules changes over anything specific, but the idea of "rays" that directly attack Fortitude Defense or whatnot, rather than 3e's more game-world-logical touch attack followed by a saving throw, is a good example of this.
2) Any of the powers that are all about one-square shifts one way or the other. I've never played OD&D in its natural state, but old-school D&D tactics, to me, were always about tactics with easy real-world analogues ("fighters, turtle up around the ranged attackers!") described in broad strokes ("Okay, so we move to surround our mage and priest, shields up.") rather than on a square grid with miniatures. As a result, anything that sends the game into being about moving people one square on a battlemat is right out.
3) Any player race or monster that looks like it was designed by a marketing guy to be totally hardcore cool is right out. Old-school D&D should celebrate its owlbears, gelatinous cubes, and even flumphs. It's certainly not the place or time for crimson-skinned tieflings with huge horns, almost draconic tails, and impossible scribbleblades to be commoners in the average town, or for towns to have to worry about a bunch of guys who want to be the superhero Penance far too much.

 

[invokethehojo]

The things I would keep:

1) Points of Light: which is funny because it's entirely imagination and therefore isn't even a mechanic. A general feel to settings with general backstory elements that both employ a feel of fantasy and exploration = cool. I just like that by stating in the DMG that this is the philosophy (one that I love)they are going to apply to every game setting most people will kind of use it. I love reading other people's worlds, but there is too much unique backstory, different gods and new places to read through. A shared premise would mean more using of new worlds and less appreciating the concept of them.
2) At will powers: I like em because I can use my imagination to do cool things, but my imagination (and DM) won't let me do extra damage or a new effect when I do them. I like options and I like a fighter who doesn't just swing a sword or a ranger who doesn't just shoot a bow ever round.
3)Dynamic Battlefields: From the first time I DM'd at age 13 I was always putting in more monsters than PC's and using visual aids to describe my battlefields (which were never in dungeons). I'm not trying to toot my own horn or anything I'm just saying that these things add to a battle, and the more rules they have to cover it (and accesories to help show it) the less work I have to do to incorporate it into my DMing.

 

[Hairfoot]

For the 4E lovers...

For the 4E haters...

We looked into it, and discovered that they are actually quite lame. So don't be lame, mkay?

We looked into it and found that such puerile categorisation of the ENworld community is actually quite lame.

 

[InfernalistGamer]

We looked into it and found that such puerile categorisation of the ENworld community is actually quite lame.

So's getting offended at a comment designed to keep a thread on track and not bogged down in trolling. *pats on the head* haveanicedaykthxbai.

Now then, if by OD&D you mean the original...
1) Add all race/class combination...I want my dwarven wizards and elven necromancers, damnit.

2) Skill/feat customization...If I want a rogue with a Skill Focus(Bluff) and the ability to talk a girl out of her corset, and get away with it, I want a system that'll let me.

3) Real multiclassing. Nuff said.

Now, for fine tuning 4th...

1) More rogue focuses...speed and brawn? Really? Where's my silver-tounged bastard? My trap-cracking dwarf?

2) A -real- cohesive, inclusive book on war, leadership and strongholds, and then being done with it so I don't have to look, stunned, at another marshal/legendary leader and dread necro/cleric of death/true necro both with armies following behind them...Or at least give me real ways to manage such hordes...

3) Don't take away my non-combat abilities for monsters. If a black dragon subjugates a tribe of kuo-toa by threatening to use corrupt water in their capitol...that's a plot hook. I need those to find inspiration, not all of us buy pre-written adventures!