D&D (2024) Mike Mearls “…it’s now obvious how to live without Bonus Actions”' And 6th Edition When Players Ask

With all due respect to Mike Mearls, he is wrong. The action economy in 5th Edition is beautifully designed, and I wouldn't change a thing about it.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Now your argument makes more sense, but I think this falls more under stealth rules being wonky than bonus actions being wonky.

Agreed. Per RAW, you have to take the Hide action to be hidden. That's the problem here. I think most people would intuitively rule that you are hidden any time the other guy can't perceive you, such as by walking or teleporting into an area of pitch blackness.

Now, teleporting into an area that's just dimly lit -- there the other guy can still perceive you, and it makes sense that you would have to spend some additional effort trying to conceal yourself.

So patch the Hide rule for "obviously can't be seen" situations, and I for one wouldn't find anything counterintuitive about the Shadow Step + Cunning Action interaction.

 

[Hussar]

Agreed. Per RAW, you have to take the Hide action to be hidden. That's the problem here. I think most people would intuitively rule that you are hidden any time the other guy can't perceive you, such as by walking or teleporting into an area of pitch blackness.

Now, teleporting into an area that's just dimly lit -- there the other guy can still perceive you, and it makes sense that you would have to spend some additional effort trying to conceal yourself.

So patch the Hide rule for "obviously can't be seen" situations, and I for one wouldn't find anything counterintuitive about the Shadow Step + Cunning Action interaction.

Just to point out, if you teleported to a place of complete darkness, you would be 100% obscured, and thus, effectively invisible - cannot be targeted by direct spells, disadvantage on attacks. Now, without that hide action, you still made enough noise that the bad guys know what square you are in, but, you would still be effectively invisible. The problem is, in my mind, the vagueness of the hidden/unseen conditions - namely there isn't a specific hidden condition, which there really needs to be, either way, in order to clear up all these issues.

 

[Pale_Valkyrie]

I gotta say.......pretty much every idea Mr. Mearls has lately is awful. Does he even play 5e? Because I do and his initiative idea was awful in gameplay. I mean Terribad. Bonus actions are essential. That is why the last 3 editions of the game have had an equivalent to bonus actions in the form of Minor and Swift.
Major action, Minor action, Move action...
the three M's of dnd have been around for 20 years and through three editions because it makes sense for so many game elements.
What next he will say he hates that casters have concentration? Stay away from DnD Mike....you have lost your mind.

 

[ad_hoc]

I gotta say.......pretty much every idea Mr. Mearls has lately is awful. Does he even play 5e?

Mearls is the lead designer of 5e. He plays regularly. His houserules are from his own game.

Because I do and his initiative idea was awful in gameplay. I mean Terribad.

I tried out his initiative variant last week and the group loved it. It makes combat more engaging and exciting.

I'm excited to read an actual write up of it.

Bonus actions are essential. That is why the last 3 editions of the game have had an equivalent to bonus actions in the form of Minor and Swift.
Major action, Minor action, Move action...
the three M's of dnd have been around for 20 years and through three editions because it makes sense for so many game elements.

5e has deliberately gotten away from 3.x and 4e and for good reason. It plays much more like 2e and earlier.

Thankfully Mearls knew that if he just made a new edition of 4e (instead of the 5e we got) then D&D would have likely flopped and then that would be the end of it.

He is regretting not going far enough in some places and I don't blame him.

 

[Zardnaar]

I gotta say.......pretty much every idea Mr. Mearls has lately is awful. Does he even play 5e? Because I do and his initiative idea was awful in gameplay. I mean Terribad. Bonus actions are essential. That is why the last 3 editions of the game have had an equivalent to bonus actions in the form of Minor and Swift.
Major action, Minor action, Move action...
the three M's of dnd have been around for 20 years and through three editions because it makes sense for so many game elements.
What next he will say he hates that casters have concentration? Stay away from DnD Mike....you have lost your mind.

And D&D did without them for 26 years. Even now BECMI and AD&D still do some things better than 5E. They add complexity to the game after that its a matter of personal preference.

 

[Hussar]

Now, on a purely personal level, I wouldn't be able to actually use these rules. I play on Fantasy Grounds and, without a LOT of rejiggering, this just wouldn't work. Shame, because I think this isn't that bad of an idea. I know we used to do this in 2e, and I think it would be a great way to engage the players around the table.

My bigger concern might be more with table dynamics. There could be a lot of friction from alpha gamer types who might want to tell the group what to do. Not saying that this is an insurmountable issue, but, I could see some between round planning sessions taking a lot more time than might be fun, particularly in something like Adventurers League games where you don't know the people around the table.

Again, not saying that's a show stopper, just something that DM's need to be aware of. That and making sure that the DM doesn't screw over the groups by listening to their plans and then taking deliberate actions to cause those plans to go wahoonie shaped. Again, that's a table issue, but, particularly with newer groups and gamers, might be a temptation for the DM and a source of frustration for the players. "Ok, guys, yeah, we'll set everyone up for the fireball." Roll Initiative. DM: "Yeah, all the bad guys, who had previously ganged up on you, scatter..."

 

[Shasarak]

Wow, never expected Mike to be talking about 6e this early into a new edition.

 

[ad_hoc]

My bigger concern might be more with table dynamics. There could be a lot of friction from alpha gamer types who might want to tell the group what to do. Not saying that this is an insurmountable issue, but, I could see some between round planning sessions taking a lot more time than might be fun, particularly in something like Adventurers League games where you don't know the people around the table.

Yeah, it's definitely table dependent which makes it a great variant but not necessarily a great default.

At my table there are a couple people who like the poll the group whenever it is their turn. There are also a couple people who usually just decide on their own, though sometimes like to get input. I've found that when it's time to declare actions people still do what they want, only now it's not just a couple people slowing the game down. Everyone contributes at the same time so there is less down time.

I would say that is the main benefit. The other one which I didn't think about until we played was how cinematic fights are now. The action resolves very quickly as the decisions have been made upfront.

So instead of one action resolving, then we wait a couple minutes then the next, they happen in rapid succession which helps with the imagination of the scene.

 

[Maxperson]

Agreed. Per RAW, you have to take the Hide action to be hidden. That's the problem here. I think most people would intuitively rule that you are hidden any time the other guy can't perceive you, such as by walking or teleporting into an area of pitch blackness.

Actually, per RAW you can become hidden without the hide action. All it takes is being both unseen and unheard.

From the Unseen Attackers and Targets section...

"If you are hidden—both unseen and unheard—when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses."

 

[Hussar]

Oh gawd, please, please, please don't turn this into another stealth wank.