Playtest (A5E) Level Up Playtest Document #5: Inspiration & Destiny

Welcome to the fifth Level Up playtest document. This playtest contains a candidate for the game’s inspiration and destiny rules.

We also wanted to thank you for all the valuable feedback you’ve given us on the playtest surveys so far. Whether you liked or disliked the material, the survey feedback shapes this game.

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​

What this is​

This is a playtest document. We’d love you to try out the rules presented here, and then answer the follow-up survey in a few days.

What this is not​

This is NOT the final game. It’s OK if you don’t like elements of these rules; that’s the purpose of a playtest document. Be sure to participate in the follow-up survey. All data, positive or negative is useful.

What we use this for​

Your survey responses help form the direction of the game as it goes through the development process.

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Continue reading...

 

[Faolyn]

@maceochaid, I like your ideas (and I see a couple of gaps myself). I think that it's possible some or most of them could be folded into the the existing Destinies. For instance, Promotion could be considered to be either a motivation for Dominion or for Excellence. Perhaps there should be a d8 of Motivations instead a d6 (I realize that the list of Motivations isn't supposed to be exhaustive).

I would disagree that Devotion is automatically good (in the real world, lots of people have been hurt or killed over the millennia by people devoted to a cause they think is just, and in D&D land, there are a lot of openly evil causes and gods to be devoted to), and while Revenge isn't particularly good (Justice is good; revenge is typically disproportional), it isn't necessarily evil, either. Likewise, people can easily Proselytize for neutral or evil gods or non-good sects of good gods, especially if you have a world where the gods are multi-faceted. And that's if you consider proselytization to be good in the first place (personally, I don't).

In rereading the Metamorphosis section, here's where I think Redemption might be a decent, if odd, fit. Here, the transformation would be more mental than physical or spiritual. You have done something wrong, and in order to redeem yourself you have to become, figuratively, a new person.

Edit: You can use Underdog for a more prosaic redemption story.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

In my campaign(s), I've been trying to find a way to tie Inspiration more cleanly and clearly to a character's motivation and essential nature. I've had a few misfires. But this...is brilliant. I'll try to implement this in at least one campaign starting right now. You just got my money.

 

[akr71]

You gain inspiration whenever you successfully subvert law and order so long as it benefits your allies or moves the story forward.

This, is very important. Thank you for including it.

 

[Krachek]

I like the concept. Very nice tool to improve role play.

 

[imagineGod]

Wow! I never thought anybody could do 5th Edition better than Wizards of the Coast.
Yet, this particular playtest document proves me wrong. Very impressive game mechanics here.

 

[Li Shenron]

Now that's something I like! I didn't dig the classes stuff to be honest, but this is a very good modular idea I could see added to many games.

 

[Maxperson]

• On excellence it says "You gain inspiration whenever the GM calls for you to make an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw". Although technically still true, the vast majority of attack rolls are made without the gm actually calling for it once the fight has started.

Even if the at the table the DM isn't explicitly calling for rolls, all rolls have to be at least tacitly approved by the DM. It just saves a bunch of time for the DM to let the players declare and roll, only stepping in if something would prevent the attack roll. The ability would apply to all of those attacks.

• on Excellence it lets you raise your int/wis/cha to a max of 22. At least in core so far ASI's & feats all say some variation of "to a maximum of 20", does this override that or open the door to some other method of bridging the gap we have yet to see?

Specific would beat general I would think

• It's going to be reallly interesting to see what neat combo's can come from metamorphosis

Agreed.

 

[tetrasodium]

• [It's going to be reallly interesting to see what neat combo's can come from metamorphosis ]

Agreed.

here's a start Rogue's win big, strength based martials some interesting stuff, everyone else a few edge cases but overuse of damage resists/mmunities & magic resist kind of hamstring a lot of what's left before getting into joining a game late as a cr whatever monster to be on par type edge cases

 

[maceochaid]

@maceochaid, I like your ideas (and I see a couple of gaps myself). I think that it's possible some or most of them could be folded into the the existing Destinies. For instance, Promotion could be considered to be either a motivation for Dominion or for Excellence. Perhaps there should be a d8 of Motivations instead a d6 (I realize that the list of Motivations isn't supposed to be exhaustive).

I would disagree that Devotion is automatically good (in the real world, lots of people have been hurt or killed over the millennia by people devoted to a cause they think is just, and in D&D land, there are a lot of openly evil causes and gods to be devoted to), and while Revenge isn't particularly good (Justice is good; revenge is typically disproportional), it isn't necessarily evil, either. Likewise, people can easily Proselytize for neutral or evil gods or non-good sects of good gods, especially if you have a world where the gods are multi-faceted. And that's if you consider proselytization to be good in the first place (personally, I don't).

In rereading the Metamorphosis section, here's where I think Redemption might be a decent, if odd, fit. Here, the transformation would be more mental than physical or spiritual. You have done something wrong, and in order to redeem yourself you have to become, figuratively, a new person.

Edit: You can use Underdog for a more prosaic redemption story.

I think there is definitely a break down in the Name, Description, and then the mechanics. You are right when I go back to it it says "a nation" and "kill for your devotion." However the mechanics don't really support it.

Looking at how it will play over the course of the game, if I had a player might come to the table with a chosen destiny of "Devotion" and that they want to be devoted to the Genocidal murder of any and all Halflings they come across . . . well as a DM I would probably tell this person they were not allowed to be at my table. (I have absolutely done this in the past with players who have exhibited misogynistic attitudes.) But let's say this player is my buddy's best friend and he begs me to let him play. I would first point to the description of the "Devotion Destiny"

And suggest that really the Dominion or Chaos destiny would be better for him to play a Genocidal character. I would point out that the conditions of getting inspiration are:

• Complete a quest
• keep a promise to your own detriment
• keep an innocent safe while seriously endangering yourself
• commit an act of genuine self-sacrifice

I would suggest that only the first two would be able to fit with this detestable character concept of "devoted to genocide" that they proposed, and then it's a stretch. Devoted is not a good option. I would further point out that they fulfill their destiny by:

Die while saving the lives of others, complete a massive undertaking personally entrusted to you, succeed with the cause you devoted your life to

I would probably still be saying "and hey, let's not make a genocidal maniac your character, I have queer people and BIPOC players at my table, and it's not going to be any fun for them since our people have a history with that that will make this a really un-fun Friday night escape." However for some reason my Genocide player insists and I have not kicked them out yet, well, then I just make the tweaks that you turn evil, not good. Then I start making my escape plan for not ever letting this player back to my table.

Now if someone comes to my table and says "I want to play a character whose lover was murdered by a halfling, and he wants to take revenge on every Halfling he comes across, and I was thinking that when he fulfills his destiny of murdering a ton of halflings, he realizes the error of his ways and decides to seek redemption, and spends the rest of his life defending other creatures against victims of bias and oppression." I say "HOT DAMN, WELCOME TO MY TABLE!"

 

[maceochaid]

@maceochaid, I like your ideas (and I see a couple of gaps myself). I think that it's possible some or most of them could be folded into the the existing Destinies. For instance, Promotion could be considered to be either a motivation for Dominion or for Excellence. Perhaps there should be a d8 of Motivations instead a d6 (I realize that the list of Motivations isn't supposed to be exhaustive).

I would disagree that Devotion is automatically good (in the real world, lots of people have been hurt or killed over the millennia by people devoted to a cause they think is just, and in D&D land, there are a lot of openly evil causes and gods to be devoted to), and while Revenge isn't particularly good (Justice is good; revenge is typically disproportional), it isn't necessarily evil, either. Likewise, people can easily Proselytize for neutral or evil gods or non-good sects of good gods, especially if you have a world where the gods are multi-faceted. And that's if you consider proselytization to be good in the first place (personally, I don't).

In rereading the Metamorphosis section, here's where I think Redemption might be a decent, if odd, fit. Here, the transformation would be more mental than physical or spiritual. You have done something wrong, and in order to redeem yourself you have to become, figuratively, a new person.

Edit: You can use Underdog for a more prosaic redemption story.

Can you explain how Metamorphosis for redemption would work? It feels like it's putting a square peg in a round hole. You say it's more "mental" but you literally are switching your character sheet for a monster in the monster manual.

So for instance one of my favorite characters was in a recent campaign that I really enjoyed, he was a Paladin who had accidentally killed my brother and was seeking absolution because he was so wracked with guilt. At 16th level, I turn into a creature of 14th level or lower. If I don't want to necessarily become an angel or whatever, how would I use this to tell the story of a Paladin who has forgiven himself?