D&D 4E Let's Make 4E!! (Brainstorming)

[Davelozzi]

1) Continue the 3.5 thrend of trying to get players more reliant on their own abilities and not magic.

While I agree that this is a noble aim, I have to disagree that it's already happening. I find that because of the CR system and the built in expectation of treasure/magic/reward levels, both 3.0 and 3.5 push the game more in the direction of reliance on magic than ever before.

 

[Stalker0]

1) Continue in what way? Please give an example.

2) Nah, I like metamagic as is.

3) I don’t agree here. My group has found the skill system to work rather smoothly.

4) Best idea you’ve listed so far. Item creation feats are the worst culprit to inflating character power. Of course, I have my own approach to this and I'm guessing other DMs have ways of controlling the influx of magic items.

5) Customizing for the sake of customizing is pointless (and the purview of DMs for their own campaign). No need to monkey with the system unless we accomplish something. Have you identified an issue?

6) I could see changing some spells (but, again, this is best left to the DM more often than not). Feat system works great and I don’t see the need for modification. Again, if you can, please give an example.

7) Couldn’t disagree more, actually. But I’m firmly in the ‘I-don’t-like-die-rolls-over-role-playing’ camp. In my campaign, rolling a social skill is a privilege and not a right (but my players knew this going in and planned accordingly).

Talk of 4.0 would be more worthwhile if we had two things: a major system change (for example, no levels...not that I am advocating that per se) and something that would be gained in the revision (not just something different, it has to be something better).

1) 3.5 made magic items more expensive in general and gave more powers to the majority of the classes making them stronger. While I'm not saying 3.5 is lower magic by any stretch, it is a step in teh right direction. I like to see the benefits of leveling more in the actual character's power, not in what stuff they get.

2) Search for threads on metamagic, and a great percent of people on the boards thinks they are too expensive and sometimes too restrictive.

3) Have you ever tried to make a relatively high level character's skill lists without using a spreadsheet program? And I'm not talking the guy just gets 4 skills maxed, I mean a well-rounded character. IT takes FOREVER!! Certain skills in most settings are way more important than other ones (listen and spot vs climb and jump), and some classes get all the skills while others get none. I think there's a better way.

5) What I mean is allow for a little customization with each spell. Arcana Unearthed, WOT are good examples of allowing a little flexibility in spell use.

6) I personally agree the feat system is good. I think WOTC went the wrong way in splitting up multpurpose spells into parts. Also, some spells are so very niche they are only used as scroll spells... and never taken by sorcs.

7) Exactly my point. Cha as is interferes with role-playing. Most of its mechanics overlap in areas where dm's like control. So usually the dm interceds which makes cha weaker as a stat. I would like hard mechanics that make cha useful, not just from a roleplay skill perspective. They could branch cha into other areas. For instance, make it more of a fortune stat similar to the paladin's divine grace. Give it a function that is hardwired into the rules instead of putting it in an area where dm's would like their say.

 

[Mouseferatu]

See Unearthed Arcana for numbers 2, 3, 4, and 5.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Here's my wish list for 4e...

1. Make ninja a core class. Make sure it has the BAB progression of a fighter, the saving throws of a monk, the hit die of a barbarian, and bonus feats every two levels. Also, it gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC every level.

2. Bring back THAC0.

3. Add at least 5 more elf subraces. Make sure at least one of these subraces has ninja as a favored class.

4. Incorperate concepts from the Book of Erotic Fantasy and FATAL into the core rules.

5. Include katana as a weapon in the Player's Handbook. Make it so Katanas do 4d6 damage and have a threat range of 17-20/x4. Everybody knows that katanas are the greatest swords ever.

6. Give the elves in the Player's Handbook immunity to disease, +4 to all ability scores, and a +10 bonus to attack rolls made with bows. That way, they'd be more Tolkienesque!

7. Change the average alignment of drow from "neutral evil" to "chaotic good". Make "ranger" the favored class for drow.

8. Similarly, change the rules so that vampires can be good. That way, I'll be able to make a character who is like Angel. No no, even cooler: I'll make a chaotic good elf vampire ninja/bladesinger who fights with a katana!

9. Three words: Anime-style artwork!

10. More illustrations of large-breasted, scantily clad elf and drow women!

 

[Hypersmurf]

3) Have you ever tried to make a relatively high level character's skill lists without using a spreadsheet program?

I always use a spreadsheet for high level skill lists.

But since spreadsheets exist... where's the problem?

-Hyp.

 

[Eldragon]

Here's my wish list for 4e...

1. Make ninja a core class. Make sure it has the BAB progression of a fighter, the saving throws of a monk, the hit die of a barbarian, and bonus feats every two levels. Also, it gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC every level.

2. Bring back THAC0.

3. Add at least 5 more elf subraces. Make sure at least one of these subraces has ninja as a favored class.

4. Incorperate concepts from the Book of Erotic Fantasy and FATAL into the core rules.

5. Include katana as a weapon in the Player's Handbook. Make it so Katanas do 4d6 damage and have a threat range of 17-20/x4. Everybody knows that katanas are the greatest swords ever.

6. Give the elves in the Player's Handbook immunity to disease, +4 to all ability scores, and a +10 bonus to attack rolls made with bows. That way, they'd be more Tolkienesque!

7. Change the average alignment of drow from "neutral evil" to "chaotic good". Make "ranger" the favored class for drow.

8. Similarly, change the rules so that vampires can be good. That way, I'll be able to make a character who is like Angel. No no, even cooler: I'll make a chaotic good elf vampire ninja/bladesinger who fights with a katana!

9. Three words: Anime-style artwork!

10. More illustrations of large-breasted, scantily clad elf and drow women!

11. Remove the Mage Armor spell, too many players are using this particular magic spell in place of normal armor.

12. Take Orcs out of the game to keep people from getting DnD confused with LotR or Warcraft

13. Replace spells in the PHB with collectable trading cards. This way, players can just have their spells right in front of them, and we dont have to deal with looking up spells in the PHB every time a spell is cast.

14. Make the duration on all buffing and defensive spells even shorter. 1 rnd/level should be the norm. 3.5e made some progress by forcing spellcasters to cast their defensive/buffing spells a minute or two before combat starts. However those minute/level spells might actually still be useful for a second combat for high level characters.

15. put more focus on miniature combat. 4e should not acutally come as a book, but a box set of dice, PHB, grid-board, and minis. Players dont care about their characters, only about killing stuff.

16. Reduce the game to 4 classes. Mage, Fighter, Cleric, Rogue. All the other classes are just deviations from these anyway. This way DnD can compete with Diablo and Gauntlet clones

17. Instead of using a d20 for skill checks, players should roll an absurd number of d6. 1 for every skill point. Other RPG systems do this, and since other people are doing it, DnD should too.

18. Use a mana system instead of spells/day.

19. Stop using color artwork for the books. Color ink drives up the cost. Furthermore, use amateur artists instead of professionals. No one looks at the pictures anyway.

 

[Shemeska]

Call an Osyluth an Osyluth, its not a Bone Devil darnit! A pox on 3.5 for the use of 1e fiend names!

*Charlie Brownesque 'AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!'*

 

[Mouseferatu]

Call an Osyluth an Osyluth, its not a Bone Devil darnit! A pox on 3.5 for the use of 1e fiend names!

*Charlie Brownesque 'AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!'*

Couldn't disagree more. I love the fact that they went back to 1e fiend names. That is, after all, how most people (adventurers included) are going to think of them. Only the wizard/cleric/scholar with many ranks in the approprate Knowledge is going to know what the heck an "osyluth" is.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Couldn't disagree more. I love the fact that they went back to 1e fiend names. That is, after all, how most people (adventurers included) are going to think of them. Only the wizard/cleric/scholar with many ranks in the approprate Knowledge is going to know what the heck an "osyluth" is.

I want my Type IIIs, damn it!

-Hyp.

 

[Stalker0]

I always use a spreadsheet for high level skill lists.

But since spreadsheets exist... where's the problem?

-Hyp.

Not all dnd players are proficient with excel. Some of them are 12 years olds who don't want to learn to use excel just to make their characters.