D&D 5E Has anyone experimented with Advantage / Disadvantage on damage dice?

[Psikerlord#]

It's already kind of in 5e with the Savage Attacker feat I think - you can reroll damage. Which is almost but not quite as good as adv on damage rolls.

 

[tetrasodium]

I've occasionally told players to do it situationally without issue but never to any significant degree where patterns would show. if dnd4vr's math is right then it looks like doing it would be pretty insignificant outside of maybe great weapon fighting

 

[Immoralkickass]

If you are playing at the table, then I would have the concern about slowing down play for what might thematically be a very minor improvement.

I don't get this argument. Does it slow the game down as much as the time it takes to calculate the 8d6 of Fireball/Lightning Bolt? Or Meteor Swarm later on? I don't think so. And if you say virtual dice can do it fast, I'm sure virtual dice can do advantage on damage dice just as fast.

I do wonder why there is no mechanic that uses this besides Savage Attacker. Most commonly seen mechanics on damage dice are Reroll 1 & 2s, which is quite similar.

 

[Don Durito]

My house rule for Greatweapon fighting is that you just roll 2d12 and take the highest for Greataxes, mauls and Greatswords. It works out to be pretty much the same as the current system with 2d6 but it's quicker and more equitable across weapons.

 

[DND_Reborn]

My house rule for Greatweapon fighting is that you just roll 2d12 and take the highest for Greataxes, mauls and Greatswords. It works out to be pretty much the same as the current system with 2d6 but it's quicker and more equitable across weapons.

FWIW we changed all 2d6 weapons to 1d12 anyway. I never liked the idea that a weapon can't do 1 point of damage. Of course, since then we now do average damage so I guess it doesn't matter LOL.

 

[Fanaelialae]

This is essentially what I use for guns when I include them in my games.

Roll 2 damage dice and drop the lowest.

Crits roll one additional damage die (still just dropping the one lowest).

If any of the dice roll the same number, they explode. Those dice get rolled again and (after dropping the lowest) the new roll is added to the total. In theory, if you roll matching numbers again, they can explode again.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't get this argument. Does it slow the game down as much as the time it takes to calculate the 8d6 of Fireball/Lightning Bolt? Or Meteor Swarm later on? I don't think so. And if you say virtual dice can do it fast, I'm sure virtual dice can do advantage on damage dice just as fast.

I do wonder why there is no mechanic that uses this besides Savage Attacker. Most commonly seen mechanics on damage dice are Reroll 1 & 2s, which is quite similar.

You're only considering the most simple situation - a weapon that does a single die of damage, when you say this.

Yeah, if the weapon does 1dX damage, Ad/Disad is easy to assess and requires little time.

What about every other situation? The problem for Ad/Disad to work correctly dice must be paired. Otherwise you'll get a much higher result (correct me if I'm wrong, math-people).

So with a Greatsword, that does 2d6 damage, you have to SEPARATELY roll 2d6 x2, then see what was higher. That alone takes as long as adding up 8d6, easily (I mean, maybe I'm good at adding up dice, but I was this good when I was 14 so I don't think it's a hard skill).

What about a worse problem - advantage on, say, a Paladin smiting for 4d6 with a greatsword. First you have to roll 2x 2d6 - separated clearly so you can see the separate overall values and compare them (4d6kh2 is mathematically different from Advantage on a 2d6 roll), then you need to roll 2d6kh1 4 times to do the smite damage.

Even with virtual tabletops, you've got a mental effort of figuring out exactly what you should be rolling. Then you're got to code it in - correctly, and many players will have some issues with these first two, as they are new skills to them and not standardized like 2d20kh1 is for normal Advantage.

And the more dice are involved, the worse it gets, and there are classes in D&D who roll staggering amounts of dice - I have a Rogue who has a Flame Tongue Shortsword in one of my groups, and he'd need to roll something like 8x 2d6kh1, and then roll 3d6 twice and take the highest.

It also means you can't do the thing many players do of simply rolling damage at the same time they attack, because it's so fiddly (and won't be a default in VTTs).

So yeah, if you can't see how this is drastically worse than rolling 8d6, that's a failure on your part, it flatly does not indicate there is not a significant issue here. Crits make the problem twice as bad, too. The above Rogue would do 16 x 2d6kh1 (which again, is mathematically very different from 32d6kh16, because one pairing could be 6, 6 and another 1, 1 and indeed they often would be) and then 2 separate rolls of 3d6, twice.

Re-rolling your damage is dramatically less overhead than Ad/Disad on your damage, which is why it is a mechanic, and this isn't a mechanic. Savage Attacker lets you re-roll and use either total. It does not give you Advantage on your damage dice. Those are different things, mathematically.

If instead of suggesting Advantage, you're merely suggesting roll the total twice, then that's more doable, though still likely to add a fair bit of time.

 

[Fanaelialae]

You're only considering the most simple situation - a weapon that does a single die of damage, when you say this.

Yeah, if the weapon does 1dX damage, Ad/Disad is easy to assess and requires little time.

What about every other situation? The problem for Ad/Disad to work correctly dice must be paired. Otherwise you'll get a much higher result (correct me if I'm wrong, math-people).

So with a Greatsword, that does 2d6 damage, you have to SEPARATELY roll 2d6 x2, then see what was higher. That alone takes as long as adding up 8d6, easily (I mean, maybe I'm good at adding up dice, but I was this good when I was 14 so I don't think it's a hard skill).

What about a worse problem - advantage on, say, a Paladin smiting for 4d6 with a greatsword. First you have to roll 2x 2d6 - separated clearly so you can see the separate overall values and compare them (4d6kh2 is mathematically different from Advantage on a 2d6 roll), then you need to roll 2d6kh1 4 times to do the smite damage.

Even with virtual tabletops, you've got a mental effort of figuring out exactly what you should be rolling. Then you're got to code it in - correctly, and many players will have some issues with these first two, as they are new skills to them and not standardized like 2d20kh1 is for normal Advantage.

And the more dice are involved, the worse it gets, and there are classes in D&D who roll staggering amounts of dice - I have a Rogue who has a Flame Tongue Shortsword in one of my groups, and he'd need to roll something like 8x 2d6kh1, and then roll 3d6 twice and take the highest.

It also means you can't do the thing many players do of simply rolling damage at the same time they attack, because it's so fiddly (and won't be a default in VTTs).

So yeah, if you can't see how this is drastically worse than rolling 8d6, that's a failure on your part, it flatly does not indicate there is not a significant issue here. Crits make the problem twice as bad, too. The above Rogue would do 16 x 2d6kh1 (which again, is mathematically very different from 32d6kh16, because one pairing could be 6, 6 and another 1, 1 and indeed they often would be) and then 2 separate rolls of 3d6, twice.

Re-rolling your damage is dramatically less overhead than Ad/Disad on your damage, which is why it is a mechanic, and this isn't a mechanic. Savage Attacker lets you re-roll and use either total. It does not give you Advantage on your damage dice. Those are different things, mathematically.

If instead of suggesting Advantage, you're merely suggesting roll the total twice, then that's more doable, though still likely to add a fair bit of time.

It doesn't need to be that complicated. Adv/Dis is only one extra die (drop the lowest/highest). If you make this work the same way, then all of those complexities fall by the wayside.

So a greatsword would be 3d6 drop the lowest.

As for smiting, just have it only apply to weapon damage. You technically need to keep the damage separate for things like that anyway (since the target might resist one type of damage or be vulnerable to the other) so it doesn't add any significant complexity.

 

[LordEntrails]

I don't get this argument. Does it slow the game down as much as the time it takes to calculate the 8d6 of Fireball/Lightning Bolt? Or Meteor Swarm later on? I don't think so. And if you say virtual dice can do it fast, I'm sure virtual dice can do advantage on damage dice just as fast.

I do wonder why there is no mechanic that uses this besides Savage Attacker. Most commonly seen mechanics on damage dice are Reroll 1 & 2s, which is quite similar.

The argument, for what it is, is not that similar things aren't done elsewhere, it's that, for me, in this case it's not worth it. If it is worth it for you, then do it.

 

[toucanbuzz]

I homebrew damage advantage on all crossbows (except hand) within 30' to reflect their close range punching power.