D&D 1E Gestalt for 1e/2e feel

[Humanaut]

Greetings,

Has anyone ever tried using Gestalt rules to mimic earlier versions of multiclassing? Split the xps in half (or thirds if triple classed) as they level I'm thinking. Only allow class combos for race as 1e (for an upcoming Greyhawk game).

Starting at 1st level they'd get a boost from best of two classes, but as they leveled they'd lose out on levels for important things like HD. We never play past 12-15th level if that makes a difference.

Any old threads either?

Thanks!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It should work.

Though I haven't used the gestalt rules, to my mind, the default multiclassing option of 3.X resembles 1Ed/2Ed Dual classing (without as many restrictions) while gestalting resembles 1Ed/2Ed Multiclassing (again, without the restrictions).

So, if you really want to use gestalting to set up a 1Ed/2Ed model in 3.X, you need to limit it to the non-Human races, and give Humans the standard 3.X version of multiclassing.

 

[Humanaut]

I must have had a disconnect on seeing 3.5 multiclassing as Dual classing of old. I like that idea of separating humans out for "regular" multiclassing ... with it's old stat minimums for changing classes of course. Can't hurt to try once I'm thinking.

Thanks!

 

[Arkhandus]

Well, let's see......

With the old division of XP multiclassing rules, a 3e gestalt character with 2 classes would advance to 2nd-level in each class after amassing a total of 2,000 XP, 3rd-level with 6,000 XP, 4th-level with 12,000 XP, 5th-level with 20,000 XP, etc. So at 2nd-level he'd be equivalent to a 4th-level human PC, at 3rd-level a 6th-level human PC, at 4th-level an 8th-level human PC, at 5th-level a 10th-level human PC, etc. By the time he reaches 2nd-level, others will be almost halfway between 2nd and 3rd. By the time he reaches 3rd-level, others will be 4th-level. By the time he reaches 4th-level, others wil be a bit past 5th-level. By the time he reaches 5th-level, others will be 6th-level and just shy of 7th. It's not until the uppermost levels that the gestalt will likely be about on-par with the human characters....

Of course, if you also use the 2e multiclassing rules on HP/HD, this character will only have 1 HD at 1st-level, 2 when he reaches 2nd-level in each class, etc. and will have a character level of the same value. He'll add together the HP rolls from each class' HD and divide by 2 to get the average (or divide by 3 with a three-way gestalt multiclass). You'd probably likewise consolidate skill points in some way; adding them together and dividing by 2 (or 3 as appropriate) then applying the Intelligence modifier and any other skill point modifiers. Probably best to round up for these 'averages'.

So the gestalt may be somewhat more powerful than the humans using normal 3e multiclassing rules, but won't have more HP or skill points or character levels (in fact, fewer character levels, fewer HP, and fewer skill points, because of the slower advancement).

 

[Humanaut]

That's kinda what I was thinking, and feats would also fall behind.

The big thing would be the HP "loss" compared to other single classed PCs. My concern would be their HP would fall behind enough to be too fragile in 3.5. The extra class abilities are nice, but you still only get one action/ round.

Should be interesting, I'm curious how many will try it once we start the new game.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

It's hard to think of all the repercussions, but I imagine this wouldmean in terms of effectiveness, most human players would have to pick full casting classes to leverage the full benefit of being higher level. ...Which would in turn mean they would only shoot themselves in the foot by multiclassing. I mean, would you rather be a Fighter 5, or a Fighter 4 / Rogue 4*?

*Or whatever, not even sure how the progression would go, just throwing it out there. Anyone know what the progression would be, roughly? Just to see how many levels behind a typical multiclass (2) would fall behind?

 

[Humanaut]

Just looking at min. XP for a single class level it flows like this:

XP Single Double

1000 2 1/1
3000 3 2/2
6000 4 3/3
10K 5 3/3
15K 6 4/4
21K 7 5/5
28K 8 5/5
36K 9 6/6
45K 10 7/7
55K 11 7/7
66K 12 8/8
78K 13 9/9
91K 14 10/10
105K 15 10/10

We don't really play higher than that. Note some of the multiclass levels are really close to going up soon after the single class levels up.

As I'm seeing it, lower levels you don't lose out too much, higher levels you'd lose up to 5HD of skill points, feats, and HP comparing a 15th lvl single to a 10/10 multiclass.

EDIT: sorry my columns are hard to read...

 

[Sempronius]

1000....2.....1/1
3000....3.....2/2
6000....4.....3/3
10K......5.....3/3
15K......6.....4/4
21K......7.....5/5
28K......8.....5/5
36K......9.....6/6
45K....10.....7/7
55K.....11....7/7
66K.....12....8/8
78K.....13....9/9
91K.....14..10/10
105K...15..10/10

There ya go, all nice and neat for ya
What you could do, as a compromise, is for multiclassing, steal the 2e xp tables, and make the multiclassers require the 2e amount of xp to gain levels, but then let them gain HD, skills, whatever, as normal for each level up.
That way it makes them divide XP among uneven xp demands, ending in weird different levels, but also means they still still get the full benefits of their levels...

 

[Humanaut]

Ah ha, thanks.

Hrm... so they need more xp, but get the bennies of each and every level? I'll have to look at my old 1e/ 2e books and see how that'd work out xp/level wise.

Something to ponder and chart out.

 

[Sempronius]

IIRC, XP demands doubled each level, until you got to this weird stage where it just seemed arbitrary, but I think it went like this
To get to level 2, you needed
950 for rogues
1500 for priests
2000 for warrior types
2500 for mages.
I think, that is the case, and I can't remember where they go all wonky...
Need to find my books.