Forked Thread: The Impasse

[tenkar]

Forked from: The Impasse

I will give it a try.

The specific example is the gaming (gamist?) challenge they have put as the basis of 4e.

In MMO games are about two distinct things. An arcade part (which is the technical skill of hand-eye coordination) and tactical part (which is the knowledge of the secrets of the game and their mastery: being able to remeber them). You have to be successful in both but usually there is some space to compensate for non optimum performance in one if you perform perfectly in the other and still achieve an optimum overall result.

Uhm, what arcade skills are needed in most MMORPGs? They aren't shooters. Clicking a hotbar does not an arcade game make.

Now, if you want to make the claim that the abilities in the hotbars draw some sort of indirect line to powers in 4e I can see some resemblence.

 

[Jack99]

What kind of skills do you even need to play arcades?

 

[Mad Mac]

What kind of skills do you even need to play arcades?

"Arcadey" is just the video game nerds term for "Badwrongfun" honestly.

Really, it's a perspective thing. Some people play nothing but turn based games and panic at the slightest hint of real time coordination being needed, while other people consider anything that doesn't require at least 100 mouse clicks or button presses a minute to be a shallow, simple game that requires no effort at all. The internet wars between these groups of people have been going on for aproximately 300 billion years, as far as I can tell.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

(shrugs)

I don't see why you can't have both.

Pac Man and Galaga were favorites of mine.
I figured out the secret of Galaga and shot down more than 15,000 aliens (out of 19,000 shots fired) in one game. And I got to the 3rd key in Pac Man!

Then again, D&D has always been a favorite. Roleplaying is a special kind of magic all in it's own. Has been since 1977 for me. It's like being *in* a book, or writing one's own story at the gaming table.

Metaphorically, I do not see why you can't have both in the game. Simply a matter of what you feel like doing at the moment! : )

Edena_of_Neith

 

[Oni]

Forked from: The Impasse



Uhm, what arcade skills are needed in most MMORPGs? They aren't shooters. Clicking a hotbar does not an arcade game make.

I've run into plenty of would-be PvPer's in WoW that didn't have the hand/eye coordination or twitch speed to keep up with the universal cooldown and be able to maintain good facing/positioning. If you can't postition, target, and attack all at the same time you're not going to be much better than a speedbump. PvE tends to be gentler on the coordination impaired, but even then things like kiting a couple dozen monsters at once or other things that require good awareness and quick reaction are just beyond some people because it's more involved than just clicking on a hotbar.

 

[genshou]

And there are other MMORPGs besides WoW, you know. My vice is Mabinogi, and I am the only player on the North American servers who has the twitch reflexes and mental processing speed to fight light gargoyles without using any skill but icebolt.

...And like Oni said, without the ability to properly track cooldown, maintain positioning, and target your attacks at the same time, you're going to fall behind during the more fast-paced battles.

Twitch reflexes don't do me any good when I play D&D.

 

[Jhaelen]

Now, if you want to make the claim that the abilities in the hotbars draw some sort of indirect line to powers in 4e I can see some resemblence.

If you play by clicking on hotbars, you've already lost against a good player. Top-tier PvP in a MMROPG plays A LOT like a first person shooter.

If you're fiddling with the mouse and use it for anything except controlling your point of view, you're definitely too slow to stand a chance against a good PvP player (assuming approximately equal class, level and equipment, of course).

Maybe there are MMORPGs in which you can stay competitive by clicking on hotbars, but I don't know any.

 

[Impeesa]

Basically, it comes down to situational awareness. Twitch reaction times are an aspect of this, as is your ability to draw upon your tactical knowledge in a useful and timely manner. In any non-time-limited, turn-based game (not just tabletop rpgs), this skillset takes a big backseat to the knowledge and tactical aspect.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Thanks for reminding me why I don't like "Arcady" games.

I always joked I'd play ego shooters again if they came with turn-based combat.

And than Fallout 3 came out and basically did that. (Okay, one could also say Max Paynes Bullet Time does the same...). Still don't ctually play F3, though. Maybe when I find more time for it.

So, what does this have to do with D&D , blind defending and Impasses?

 

[Jhaelen]

So, what does this have to do with D&D , blind defending and Impasses?

Nothing, I guess. That's why it's been forked, I think