D&D 5E Don't Throw 5e Away Because of Hasbro

[Minigiant]

If you 'need' a big company, you 'need' multiple ones to create competition.

Otherwise you'd end up with the outlandish circumstance of a rudderless game stagnating for nine years, then missing almost every chance to innovate during its anniversary glow-up because they feel they have a captive audience. Which would never happen.

Multiple companies can't own the IP.

That's the problem. You really can't compete if your competitior owns the IP.

Technically the system can't be owned. it would be possible for 3-5 companies to write 3-5 compatible versions of the same 5e system and all do the marketing to grow the market. But that could never happen as no other publisher would be stupid enough to enter the same exact market at close to the same level of investment.

And eventually some would merge or sell and..back to one big old company will all the money doing all the advertising.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Multiple companies can't own the IP.

Are we talking about Fantasy RPGs, or just D&D?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

For the past nine months, I’ve heard from a fair number of people, including people close to me and people I’ve worked with, say they don’t want anything to do with Hasbro, WOTC, or D&D. Unfortunately, they’re piling all of 5e in there too.

5e isn’t D&D. Since its release into the Creative Commons by two different companies, 5e is now an open system supported by hundreds of publishers and, in some cases, with whole games built around it.

5e is now and forever an independent tabletop roleplaying platform not tied to any single company.

If someone doesn’t like 5e as a system, that’s totally fine. Not every system is for everyone. I know many who love the tactical crunchiness and character customization of Pathfinder 2. I know many others who love the fast and furious grim dark fantasy of old-school games like Shadowdark, EZD6, and Old School Essentials. That’s cool.

Likewise, if you’re happy with D&D and don’t want or need anything else, that’s cool too. Most D&D players probably never consider products outside of what WOTC produces for D&D. I definitely recommend looking at the many awesome D&D / 5e compatible products many other publishers have created. Here are ten notable products for 2022 and my YouTube video segment on favorite products of 2023, all from other publishers than WOTC. Check them out.

If you enjoy 5e but you’re done with Hasbro or WOTC or the D&D brand, this message is for you.

5e isn’t D&D.

You can enjoy the hell out of 5e without having to use any products or pay any money to Hasbro.

There are several excellent alternative core books for 5e – my current favorite being EN Publishing’s Level Up Advanced 5e and more on the way like Kobold Press’s Tales of the Valiant.

These companies pay no license fees to Hasbro. Their work is completely independent from D&D. In A5e’s case, they have their own system reference document they wrote and released under a Creative Commons license that’s significantly bigger than the 5.1 SRD.

These systems and products are completely independent from Hasbro or WOTC or D&D. 5e's rules were built by designers, many of whom aren't at Hasbro anymore, based on principles that go back 50 years and two full company acquisitions ago.

Yes, 5e came from the development of the 2014 version of D&D. 5e stands for “5th edition” and that’s the 5th edition of D&D, but that doesn’t matter now. Now, all of the mechanics are released under a Creative Commons license and, as mentioned, there’s a whole separate one you can use instead if you don’t want to use the one published by WOTC.

If you love 5e, as I do, don’t throw it out just because you’re mad at one company publishing material for it. 5e is ours and I personally think it’s awesome. You’re not hurting anyone or supporting the wrong group by buing products for it, running it, and playing it.

Game on.

Can I ask a simple question, is there a POINT to this thread?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I wouldn't throw away 5E (or any D&D) simply because of a company. I've never even heard of anyone doing this...

But then again, I live under a rock.

No. You just don't live in a certain bubble.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

No. You just don't live in a certain bubble.

So, what would happen if the people in the bubble threw away everything made by big evil corporations...

 

[Minigiant]

Are we talking about Fantasy RPGs, or just D&D?

I'm talking about your hypothetical. So both.

D&D, PF, and most of the D&D clones and adjacents have their markets due to WOTC owning the D&D IP and pumping out ads, deals, and books in an attempt to make 100s of millions of it.

VtM and the rest of WOD gets their books, video games, and content creation again because Paradox Interactive, a multimillion dollar video game company, pumps millions into creating a market for them to make tens of millions off.

People may hate the suits.
People may not love the suits.
I don't love them either.
But the suits is what gets us the first party books, the third party books, the video games, the videos, the streams, the movies, etc.
And without them the games we love would be smaller with smaller fanbase and with fewer content creators creating their own books or offshoot RPGs.
And removal of them would force many of the creatives we love back into the dark creating only as side side gigs as the RPGs would not be profitable as a full time job, a kickstarter, or a who publishing company.

 

[SlyFlourish]

Can I ask a simple question, is there a POINT to this thread?

It’s in the title.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I definitely won't throw 5e away because of Hasbro. You can be absolutely sure of that.

 

[DEFCON 1]

While I acknowledge and appreciate the sentiment... I'm still under the belief that trying to use the term '5E' as the designator for all non-WotC products that use the 5E game engine is only going to cause confusion and ultimately not accomplish the thing it wants to as well as it could.

Like it or not... '5E' and WotC-owned Dungeons & Dragons are linked irrevocably. And any attempts at speaking on '5E' products is going to get a large swathe of the people reading or hearing it to assume that WotC-owned Dungeons & Dragons is a part of that conversation. (General) you won't be able to say the former without the latter automatically being invoked. "This is a 5E product" will be assumed to be a product for Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition (2104 or 2024) and the person has to be prepared to go through the effort of explaining "No, no! Not that! It's really...."

Now maybe that doesn't really matter to people at the end of the day? If so, then just keep doing what you're doing. But I do think it is telling that we actually have someone feeling the need to make a thread trying to tell folks that 5E and D&D are different... which insinuates quite easily that most people don't really think they are.

So I say don't try and swim against the current. Come up with a new term other than '5E' to use for all non-WotC-owned 5E game engine products, so there can be a natural distinction and break between them.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

So, what would happen if the people in the bubble threw away everything made by big evil corporations...

Some trash box would be half full?