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D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

Plan to adopt the new core rules?

  • Yep

    Votes: 257 53.4%
  • Nope

    Votes: 224 46.6%

Faolyn

(she/her)
it also is not contradicted by the text, so there is nothing incorrect about it, it simply is different from yours but as far as I am concerned at least as valid
Yes it is. Because nobles only get the benefits of being a noble within 100 miles of their home. Folk heroes do not have that restriction. Therefore, their "recognition"--which is not part of their background--is not restricted by distance, only by social class.

We will not agree on this, I believe I said that a few days back already. To me this shows why the features as written are bad, you cannot simply expect everyone to accept a feature that can easily be read as nonsensical and illogical. Either come up with a better feature that can stand up to even the smallest bit of scrutiny, or get rid of them. Either one is better than what they are now
Since the feature is neither nonsensical nor illogical, yes, I can expect people to accept it. It makes sense if you actually read the text as it is written and inserting your own reading--like when you think the background has something to do with people recognizing you as a hero.

And it is nonsensical and illogical to rewrite the feature and claim your revision is actually what the text says.
 

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All of this is support for my disdain for 5e background features in the first place. Most of them run into my personal D&D bugaboo: narrative mechanics.
Well it's going away and being replaced by Feats.

Personally I like Narrative Mechanics in games if they are built in properly. I don't think it was done best with 5e Backgrounds, as most people including me tended to forget they existed.
 

mamba

Legend
Yes it is. Because nobles only get the benefits of being a noble within 100 miles of their home. Folk heroes do not have that restriction. Therefore, their "recognition"--which is not part of their background--is not restricted by distance, only by social class.
folk hero is no social class

I can expect people to accept it
how is that working out for you? ;)

And it is nonsensical and illogical to rewrite the feature and claim your revision is actually what the text says.
I did not say it is what the text said, I said it is a corrected version of the nonsense the text is
 


Yaarel

He-Mage
Yes it is. Because nobles only get the benefits of being a noble within 100 miles of their home. Folk heroes do not have that restriction. Therefore, their "recognition"--which is not part of their background--is not restricted by distance, only by social class.
Elites normally welcome other elites from distant lands abroad.

Part of this is diplomatic caution. Part of it is connections, whence opportunities. Part of this is making friends with someone interesting who one can relate to.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Elites normally welcome other elites from distant lands abroad.

Part of this is diplomatic caution. Part of it is connections, whence opportunities. Part of this is making friends with someone interesting who one can relate to.
Sure, and I'd accept that (depending on player RP, of course). But I'm pointing out the difference between the two mechanics.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
To me, 5e's backgrounds are simply an update to 2e's Kits, filling much the same purpose- you get a few proficiencies that make sense given what you were doing before you started adventuring full time, and there's a side benefit to along with it. It's worth noting that not all Kit benefits are universal- the Complete Fighter's Handbook specifies that the Peasant Hero only gains shelter and aid from members of his own community; similarly, the Noble Warrior gains benefits when dealing with nobles of his own culture and can only demand sanctuary in his own nations. OTOH, the Gladiator is recognized (as a Gladiator, at least) wherever they go, though this is presented as a hindrance, not a boon.

That 5e backgrounds don't acknowledge these restrictions seem to preclude the existence of globe or plane-trotting campaigns; there's an assumption that if someone plays a noble, the DM will make it work for their campaign, as if the campaign will take place in or near a particular part of the world forever.

And certainly, there are a lot of campaigns where this would work perfectly fine for quite awhile; after all, by default, player characters don't often become world or plane-travelers until higher level.*

*I know this isn't always the case, but I think it's fair to say it mostly is the case.

So what we're really missing is, as usual, guidance for high-level campaigns and any indication that background features are supposed to stop working at some point (or be replaced by something else).

I mean, for example, let's say I have a Folk Hero background and, after ten levels of adventuring, I manage to become a landed noble (say by liberating my Uncle's keep in the Kryptgarden, ala Dungeon #26).

Do the common folk still see me as one of their own? Shouldn't I have the same benefits as a noble?

There's no guidance here, and it's all left to the DM to decide. All indications are that it's assumed the DM will figure it out on their own, of course.
 

I disagree, "the final say" is what changed on a dime . You went from talking about how the GM needs to find a way to make it work to blaming the player for not reading the word eberron on the cover of rising and doubling down on reasons why the feature can not pollute a non-eberron setting.
Take the words need out of your sentence and replace it with "can." Then replace the next part for "expecting the player to read the title of the book." And I have always clearly stated (especially at this point), it is both the DM's and player's responsibility during session zero to lay out their expectations before a full blown campaign.
If you want to argue that people going into a year or more long campaign shouldn't need to read and understand the context of a book they are using, and shouldn't communicate their expectations with each other, and shouldn't try to accommodate one another - then we disagree.

For the record, I have put forth no such claims that the DM "needs" to do anything. In fact, I have placed most of the responsibility on the player. And the reason is simple, the DM already has a lot to do. Asking a player to understand the context from which the character they are building comes from, and then compare it with the setting they are actually playing in, is not too much to ask. It should be an expectation. All I can say, is thank goodness the last five groups I have played with understand this perfectly. (Note: The only ones to not understand this are the high school students I oversee. They don't do this because very few of them read the books. They just look up the abilities online without any connection to where the ability/class/power/spell/etc. came from.)
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I never said backgrounds were a bad idea. I said groups should discuss backgrounds and talk about how much the background feature will be useful. I think the Background Features as presented in the earlier backgrounds were potentially limited because it's based too much on being recognized or who you know. I don't like how they were done, newer backgrounds are better. I still like the concept and the flexibility they give to character design (e.g. a dex based PC with criminal background being a reasonable replacement for a rogue).

But yeah, there are no libraries in Barovia so being a researcher is of no benefit. Same as being a sailor in the desert or any number of scenarios.
Mad scientists say that you are wrong about research being of no benefit in Barovia. Muahahahahaha! But seriously, if a background doesn't work for an area, it's typically apparent to the players and they just don't pick that background except by deliberate choice(My PC sailor is far from home and has been in the desert for the last 3 years).
 

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