D&D 3E/3.5 D&D 3e to be changed to new d20 rules? 4e coming!

[rounser]

What is realistic isn't necessarily conducive to a good story. A focus on realism would ruin the stories of many novels and movies .

What leads to a good story doesn't necessarily lead to a good game. Stories usually play favourites with certain characters in ways that would break game balance.

What is realistic doesn't necessarily lead to a good game. Realistic rules are not necessarily playable or fun rules.

4E should be focused firstly on being a good roleplaying GAME, with being a simulation or story framework running secondary to that.

 

[rounser]

D&D's popularity has (IMO) nothing whatsoever to do with its system and everything to do with being first to market so many years ago.

I disagree with you. Not every originator keeps the market.

IMO, D&D's stranglehold has always been that it provides more "toys" in the form of loads of imaginative and quirky (yes, quirky and original, a lot of other games are rather dry in this respect) monsters, spells and magic items than any other fantasy game, and a ruleset that lets you play with them in a world of your own devising without getting in the way too much.

I'm surprised that the 3E design team didn't seem to recognise this, and placed game balance on a pillar higher than the "DIY pulp fantasy toolkit" ethic which AD&D has had in the past. (For example, the selection of monsters in the 3E Monster Manual is there for game balance reasons rather than what is or isn't a cool monster that would add to a campaign in a non-rulesy way. This, IMO, is designerthink gone too far.)

If Fudge or some other playable ruleset had the range of spells, monsters, settings and magic items that AD&D has, I'd be playing that. I guarantee you that a lot of other people would too...the mechanical rules matter less than the system's resources of "toys", IMO...

 

[Psion]

D&D's popularity has (IMO) nothing whatsoever to do with its system and everything to do with being first to market so many years ago.

Nothing? Nothing?

Nothing like an embarassingly bald statement.

Do you care to back up this assertion with a statement about why you think my supporting assertions are wrong?

I'll agree that primacy can and probably did play a role. But to say that the system had nothing to do with it is out to lunch.

Most roleplayers, who don't consider themselves real roleplaying connoisseurs, think of D&D and D&D only when they think of roleplaying.

That sounds like an extremely suspicious assertion. IME, players who have and will only play D&D are actually quite rare. In fact, I think that I think I can only name three total in all of the circles that I have travelled in 4 states and 20 years of gaming.

The standing network of D&D players relative to players of other games has pretty much ensured that this will maintain itself for at least the next several years.

That's A reason. Not the only reason. D&D would have been dethroned long ago if there wasn't something to it that kept players coming back to it.

(Wow. Rounser and I agree on something. But he is right, you know. Not all originators keep their market. Otherwise I'd be typing this on an apple PC.)

 

[Thorvald Kviksverd]

...the mechanical rules matter less than the system's resources of "toys", IMO...

I hadn't thought about it much before, but there's a lot of truth in this.

Anyone who has sat down to design their own game would probably tell you that it isn't too difficult to devise some elegant mechanics to capture the feel you're after--filling in the nooks and crannies with spells and monsters though ...

 

[Voneth]

Re: Re: D&D 3e to be changed to new d20 rules? 4e coming!

IMO, because aspects like AC and HP as they are capture the heroic fantasy feel. In D&D 3e, a character with a dagger can have a credible chance of harming someone in full plate armor if he is good enough. No such luck if you make armor into DC.

That credible chance also depends on how many levels seperate the attacker from the defender, enough hit points and one doesn't need plate mail. Unless they remove critical hits from the game, I think DR will be fairly "realistic" all things considered.

 

[Victim]

That kinda makes sense, in a way. Ever notice how in many fantasy stories, the quality of the armour is inversely related to the power level of the character wearing it? From battlesuited stormtroopers to nazgul and uruk-hai in plate mail, it seems that armour is really the traditional domain of mooks. _Real_ heroes get by with a chain shirt, or even just regular clothing.

Hong "or a chainmail bikini, even" Ooi

Mooks != Paladin or knight types

 

[UnDfind]

Realism?

I dunno how much realism actually factors into the game mechanics thing. I mean some game mechanics make sense, while others don't. An example is the Alternity system, as well as D20 system. Both those systems make sense. They have rules that work and keep everything balanced. I've always preferred that simple elegance of a balanced and useable system than one that's "more realistic."

If you look at it in the right light, then the whole idea of classes and levels would be out the window in favor of a much more customizable system if you wanted true realism.

I'd rather 4th ed emphasize good and simplistic mechanics that both make sense, and still retain the feel and meticulous detail of the worlds that TSR and now WOTC have built up over the years.

But that's just my opinion...

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

I like D&D 3e fine as it is

It's abstract enough, it feels a lot like D&D 1e while playing faster and with less complications, and the rules are consistency. I'm certainly not interested in WP or armor as DR.

It may be that a large community of gamers will adopt VP/WP and armor as DR, but my suspicion is that those gamers will be dwarfed by players who use the straight HP system. It's easier to use, and allows more survivable PCs.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Why the hell would they need a 4th ed already? And why make the combat even more detailed and slow. The incredible abstractness of 1e's combat was the beauty of it. It was quick and over, get back to the adventure. It's slow enough as it is now, I don't think we need to complicate it anymore.

 

[Akunin]

If you are looking for a greater degree of realism in your RPG consider trying Rolemaster. IT is a great system that has been streamlined but offeres the most realistic game mechanics imaginable.

Most realistic? I'm gonna have to disagree with you. It's deadly, sure, and low-level monsters hage a good chance of hurting even powerful fighter-types, but it's hardly "realistic".

I'd say that Harn has a much more realistic combat system - it's a very "grim and gritty" setting, low in magic, and combat is quick and lethal without outlandish critical tables.