Spelljammer 64-page Spelljammer books?

[darjr]

They don't seem to be taking it that seriously. Their solution so far is to charge dramatically more for significantly less. Not the best strategy in the world.

Again, then by definition things you got years ago have more value than any new thing likely ever will.

Exactly. The entire 2E Spelljammer collection on drivethrurpg comes to about $125. The total page count is about 2,054. Or about 16.4 pages per dollar. The 5E adaptation of Spelljammer is 192 pages total for $70. Or about 0.36 pages per dollar. And considering the layout and design choices of 5E compared to 2E, you're also getting a lot more content per page in the old stuff than you are with the new stuff. Slightly less than 2x the money for way more than 10x the content.

The original Spelljammer box came out in 1989, cost $18, and ran 192 pages. Dropping that into an inflation calculator gives me $42.43. Which is well under the new price tag. It's about a 165% increase. So you're paying more for the same number of pages...but those pages have drastically less content.

Well from what I’ve heard that original box set cost more to make then was sensible and was one of the products losing TSR money and bleeding them dry. So I’m not sure it’s an appropriate comparison.

Ope I was beat to the post.

 

[Reynard]

Fair. But we have no idea how much coke Gary was sniffing.

I wonder if @BenRiggs has data on how profitable or not the individual setting lines were, considering they are often touted as the reason for TSR's ultimate downfall.

 

[Parmandur]

Really! I've only read it online, I've never had the actual physical copy. THat's pretty impressive!

Yup, 14 scenarios between pages 12 and 47, so 2.5 pages per scenario. That's not including the intro material and Phandlein hub in the first 11 pages, or the monsters after the end.

So, assuming 4 pages per episode for Splljammer would get us to 48 pages, so probably closer to about 5 pages per episodic Module, with a few pages of intro material. Expect no monster stats here, just references to the MM and the accompanying Monater book. So, light scenarios, but some space for big stroke basic Adventure setups.

 

[Parmandur]

They don't seem to be taking it that seriously. Their solution so far is to charge dramatically more for significantly less. Not the best strategy in the world.

Again, then by definition things you got years ago have more value than any new thing likely ever will.

Exactly. The entire 2E Spelljammer collection on drivethrurpg comes to about $125. The total page count is about 2,054. Or about 16.4 pages per dollar. The 5E adaptation of Spelljammer is 192 pages total for $70. Or about 0.36 pages per dollar. And considering the layout and design choices of 5E compared to 2E, you're also getting a lot more content per page in the old stuff than you are with the new stuff. Slightly less than 2x the money for way more than 10x the content.

The original Spelljammer box came out in 1989, cost $18, and ran 192 pages. Dropping that into an inflation calculator gives me $42.43. Which is well under the new price tag. It's about a 165% increase. So you're paying more for the same number of pages...but those pages have drastically less content.

Sure, those are great values. But that will be more work for most DMs than plopping down for this box set using current rules.

The relevant comparison, if you want to go for page count, is what 3 64 hardcover books and a DM screen go for at market rates. And by that measure, three $30 books and a $25 screen for $70 is a deal. The more rational entertainment hours measure, however, is the way to go. For this and all entertainment.

 

[overgeeked]

I wonder if @BenRiggs has data on how profitable or not the individual setting lines were, considering they are often touted as the reason for TSR's ultimate downfall.

I’m also curious about that. Spelljammer and Dark Sun are some of my top five. I’d love to see how they did.

 

[Parmandur]

Fair. But we have no idea how much coke Gary was sniffing.

Sadly, an amount somewhat greater than zero.

 

[Parmandur]

I’m also curious about that. Spelljammer and Dark Sun are some of my top five. I’d love to see how they did.

@BenRiggs appears to be preparing a look at Setting product sales on Monday.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

So... honest opinion?

Three 64 page books is better than one 256 page book. But only if handled right. And I don't think they're quite handling it right.

Break it down Core Books style. Player's Guide, Monster Book, DM's book.

Most of the setting and upward facing material goes into the Player's Guide which the DM reads, too.

DM's Book expands on what is in the Player's Guide, giving the deeper background of organizations and entities, setting threads, and mechanics.

Monster Book is just monster stats, locations, and lore.

Then, the DM can hand the players the Player's Guide before the campaign starts and let them read it cover to cover. There's nothing in that book that provides them too much information or whatever. It's -just- player-facing options and setting information that is common, or common enough, knowledge. No risk of them flipping to the DM portions of the book to learn more about background stuff or stat blocks for setting NPCs or Monsters because all of that is in another book.

Then make 64 page Adventures going forward... and you've got content and a half.

It's how I was looking at organizing Sins of the Scorpion Age for release. A Player's Guide with basic information about all the important cities and stuff in the world, then a Narrator's Guide with greater depth of each of those locations and DM-facing materials. Sold together at "Book Price" or you can buy the Player's Guide separately for a little less.

Because that's another thing... getting the Player's Guide to Spelljammer into players' hands separately and at a cheaper price point would be -huge-.

I so miss the soft-cover dual-booklets-plus-DM screen that they released for the Next Playtest, Murder in Baldur's Gate and Legacy of the Crystal Shard.

You had one booklet for the adventure and setting lore and one for the the DM's stuff + monsters stats, then you had the light soft paper thematic dm's screen with the various maps of the region, all fitting in a nice soft cover folder.

Way easier to manage that huge 250+ pages campaigns and way more manageable for my budget!

Going with smaller booklets to divide the information seems like a great idea for your setting.

Edited to add: I could even see someone going as far as putting pocket inserts on the fold-out DM screen so it could become transport folder for the booklets when folded. Easy transportation seems to be something not in the mind of WotC or other kickstarting publishers!

 

[pukunui]

One of the 3 64 page books is an adventure with "twelve episodes" in it.

I have no idea how they're going to pull that one off.

Railroading

 

[Parmandur]

Railroading

Well, more specifically based on what Perkins was laying down it will be laying out breadcrumbs, the mildest farm of railroading.

The format is a Star Trek style "Planet of the Week" all of them Tier 2 for that matter (Level 5-8). So, a set-up for a world to visit, a keyed Dungeon, and a breadcrumb leading to the next world in the sequence. Probably easy to mix and match or scuttle the overarching story entirely.