-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
4TH Edition,worst ever D&D?
- Thread starter thyax
- Start date
- Status
That One Guy
First Post
Welcome to the boards (both of you)!
Oh man, so these boards had quite a lot of edition wars. If you dig through the forums I'm sure you can find several pages of bitterness on both sides. I really wish you could have expressed a few more of your complaints, because saying (allow me to paraphrase) 'I am an experienced gamer. I have a lot of experienced gamer friends. We all say this is bad. There are a ton of reasons. Here are some that are our collective opinions. This is terrible, and D&D will end' does not lend itself readily to intelligent debate.
No, there is not a shutdown naysayers rule around here, but unless a person tries to rationally and respectfully express their opinion things end up getting sour.
I have to disagree w/ the view that everything combat oriented seems like tricks and that magic is without value. Based on playing the game and running several sessions, the powers and rituals play very well. Every person's powers do feel different and the rituals allow for a lot of creative game play similar to older editions w/out gamebreaking influence. Also, the idea of skill challenges make a pretty fun guideline (check out the errataed stuff).
I am not saying that 4e is perfect. It reads terrible, and the errata is awful. But, this does not matter to me because when in actual play it is excellent IMO.
Oh man, so these boards had quite a lot of edition wars. If you dig through the forums I'm sure you can find several pages of bitterness on both sides. I really wish you could have expressed a few more of your complaints, because saying (allow me to paraphrase) 'I am an experienced gamer. I have a lot of experienced gamer friends. We all say this is bad. There are a ton of reasons. Here are some that are our collective opinions. This is terrible, and D&D will end' does not lend itself readily to intelligent debate.
No, there is not a shutdown naysayers rule around here, but unless a person tries to rationally and respectfully express their opinion things end up getting sour.
I have to disagree w/ the view that everything combat oriented seems like tricks and that magic is without value. Based on playing the game and running several sessions, the powers and rituals play very well. Every person's powers do feel different and the rituals allow for a lot of creative game play similar to older editions w/out gamebreaking influence. Also, the idea of skill challenges make a pretty fun guideline (check out the errataed stuff).
I am not saying that 4e is perfect. It reads terrible, and the errata is awful. But, this does not matter to me because when in actual play it is excellent IMO.
ok,my approach was very bad,and probably i have post in the wrong section,sorry about this,i'll explain some points:
1)me and my group (6 men) have tried the function of first tier...they were quiet ok for the first 3 lvls (2 sessions) but something in progression worried us,so we tried some character at 7th, 14th and 22nd lvl, to see if the points we were worried about were true, and they definitely were. the spells aviable to classes were very flat, they're all about roll a dice,match stats vs stats, apply the effects, witch are generally poor, and pretend you to have a grid, thing that we always have, but the absolute reduction of the rpg to the board game pov was extremely disapointing, even the translation of measures from metric/yards to "squares" is very board game; more, all powers were encountr-based, at any tier, and you and up using always same mechanics in every encounter, you have your very limited number of powers and you do that, full stop, no creativity in play style, all mages ends playin the same, perhaps the difference may be one rolls usually int vs cos or char vs ref and so on, and every power endup in a dmg effect and a movement/status side effect. If you take any other edition, you'll see an enormous difference in variety of spells, and flexibility and customization of pcs.More, the few powers even a 22nd lvl pc have, in a sigle session are fully used in about 3 hours,leaving very few interesting things to do in your gaming session, apart from itemization, wich make it looks like a lot to a mmorg, but WoW still wields more variety than core rulebooks chars from 4th edition, contrary to what happens for 3rd edition chars,with the only corebook you could have so many ways to custom your playstyle to play for years, in 4th ed, we ended up seeing everything in a month.
2) the art and layout of books like these are extremely important, the great difference between 2nd and 3rd edition was pecivable even when you open the book and just watch it without reading, in the case of 3rd>>4th you see a great reduction in numbers of images, theyr quality and layout of everything, that dumps a lot your excitement while reading on.
This is particularly frustrating given the fact that WotC holds contact with the best artists, and did such a great work for the previous edition
3)flavours of the game had been gretly reworked,introducing some race very exotic as "base" races, like draconic and tieflings, and letting out some old fantasy base race to be viable, like gnome and orcs, even the distinction between eladrin and elves looks like to be forced; the introduction of monsters of great power and 1hp is even ridicolous for us, and greatly reduce the reliability of the "simulation" you're playing; more, the idea of rituals wasn't bad at all, but had been developed to work very bad, and still, they offer just a little portion of the variety offered from old spells, not adding anything new;more about the "simulation reliability" side, healing impulse are terrible gives you the impression everyone can close terrible wounds with sheer force of will without any explanation, and in the end thay didn't help to survive that longer...there are tons of things likethis(druids? why warlocks? etc....)
4) Romics stays at Lucca like the Rome football team stays at Manchester Utd.....7-1,shhh,and go home.
PS
As i stated, i've played for 20 years, so,from the red box on, and i was referring to the product in its time, the whit box,witch i have in my collection, was the best product aviable at the moment, like base D&D and AD&D and 3rd ed was in theyr times, while 4th looks like the dumbest rpg around(already a great number of errata are spawning, but from this pov,3rd edition wasnt better^^)
1)me and my group (6 men) have tried the function of first tier...they were quiet ok for the first 3 lvls (2 sessions) but something in progression worried us,so we tried some character at 7th, 14th and 22nd lvl, to see if the points we were worried about were true, and they definitely were. the spells aviable to classes were very flat, they're all about roll a dice,match stats vs stats, apply the effects, witch are generally poor, and pretend you to have a grid, thing that we always have, but the absolute reduction of the rpg to the board game pov was extremely disapointing, even the translation of measures from metric/yards to "squares" is very board game; more, all powers were encountr-based, at any tier, and you and up using always same mechanics in every encounter, you have your very limited number of powers and you do that, full stop, no creativity in play style, all mages ends playin the same, perhaps the difference may be one rolls usually int vs cos or char vs ref and so on, and every power endup in a dmg effect and a movement/status side effect. If you take any other edition, you'll see an enormous difference in variety of spells, and flexibility and customization of pcs.More, the few powers even a 22nd lvl pc have, in a sigle session are fully used in about 3 hours,leaving very few interesting things to do in your gaming session, apart from itemization, wich make it looks like a lot to a mmorg, but WoW still wields more variety than core rulebooks chars from 4th edition, contrary to what happens for 3rd edition chars,with the only corebook you could have so many ways to custom your playstyle to play for years, in 4th ed, we ended up seeing everything in a month.
2) the art and layout of books like these are extremely important, the great difference between 2nd and 3rd edition was pecivable even when you open the book and just watch it without reading, in the case of 3rd>>4th you see a great reduction in numbers of images, theyr quality and layout of everything, that dumps a lot your excitement while reading on.
This is particularly frustrating given the fact that WotC holds contact with the best artists, and did such a great work for the previous edition
3)flavours of the game had been gretly reworked,introducing some race very exotic as "base" races, like draconic and tieflings, and letting out some old fantasy base race to be viable, like gnome and orcs, even the distinction between eladrin and elves looks like to be forced; the introduction of monsters of great power and 1hp is even ridicolous for us, and greatly reduce the reliability of the "simulation" you're playing; more, the idea of rituals wasn't bad at all, but had been developed to work very bad, and still, they offer just a little portion of the variety offered from old spells, not adding anything new;more about the "simulation reliability" side, healing impulse are terrible gives you the impression everyone can close terrible wounds with sheer force of will without any explanation, and in the end thay didn't help to survive that longer...there are tons of things likethis(druids? why warlocks? etc....)
4) Romics stays at Lucca like the Rome football team stays at Manchester Utd.....7-1,shhh,and go home.
PS
As i stated, i've played for 20 years, so,from the red box on, and i was referring to the product in its time, the whit box,witch i have in my collection, was the best product aviable at the moment, like base D&D and AD&D and 3rd ed was in theyr times, while 4th looks like the dumbest rpg around(already a great number of errata are spawning, but from this pov,3rd edition wasnt better^^)
Last edited:
Rel
Liquid Awesome
Welcome to the boards, thyax. If you stay around here, you will find many different opinions about all editions of D&D, including 4e.
We (the moderators) encourage such discussion but we don't currently allow threads such at these that are what we call "Edition Wars". There are plenty of criticisms to be made of 4e but this sort of blanket condemnation mixed with creative terminology like "
" and "suckness" goes beyond the polite conversation that is allowed under our rules.
We (the moderators) encourage such discussion but we don't currently allow threads such at these that are what we call "Edition Wars". There are plenty of criticisms to be made of 4e but this sort of blanket condemnation mixed with creative terminology like "
" and "suckness" goes beyond the polite conversation that is allowed under our rules.- Status
Similar Threads
