D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5e] Will they fix the other H spell?

[Tom Cashel]

A 3rd-level cleric can take out a 9th level fighter with it very easily, under the right circumstances.

Well...

Maybe.

Lower level spells have lower Save DCs. I don't think it needs to be "fixed."

 

[Kusuf ibn Zaid]

My complaint with Hold Person and spells of its ilk isn't that they are unbalancing (although in the case of Hold Person, I wouldn't mind it being 3rd level). My complaint is that it isn't very fun. As a DM, I don't enjoy forcing someone to sit on the sidelines fetching beer for the other players. As a player, I don't enjoy fetching beer. I came to play, not to watch. From a fun standpoint, these spells aren't as much of a problem for me in the hands of players. Even if my chief baddy gets held, I at least have all his minions to play with. Nevertheless, it seems a bit unfair to the villains to never allow them to use a spell that is obviously a good choice, while at the same time allow it to the PCs.

- Kusuf

 

[Tom Cashel]

As a DM, I don't enjoy forcing someone to sit on the sidelines fetching beer for the other players.

But that's the best part of being a DM!

 

[Kae'Yoss]

This is obviously because WE HAVE BETTER BEER THAN YOU DO. Or something.



It's not my fault none of the mods like Saarkraut.



Hey, no prob. I'll be right here waiting, no matter HOW long it takes for you to de-explodiate your head.



Sure, sure. You're just saying that because you're a Saar loser.



Is Saarkraut a country?



Saar loser.



Just fighters.



I am glad you seem to think that taking hold person counts as making a "min-maxed" character. I think so too. Do you have anything else to say?



The cleric can also take feats and items to raise the spell DC. Your point is what, exactly?

Wanna bet?



Hey, if you give your ftr3's enough money to stock up on wyvern blood, deathblade and black lotus extract on a regular basis, that's fine by me!

I am glad that your point seems to be that hold person should cost 3,000 gp per casting (cost of wyvern poison, as per DMG). Again, I think so too. Do you have anything else to say?



Now I REALLY am confused.


Hong "I blame KaeYoss" Ooi

Since you obviously have to resort to insults now, I guess you have used up your arguments for your power-gamer feats, and I consider this discussion as concluded

 

[Henry]

I think everyone here needs to remember to respect one another a bit more. This went from a discussion of Hold Person to veiled insults about personality and nationality.

Please tone it down and stick to topic.

 

[Henry]

As for myself, I find Hong's "mind over magic" feat (my name for it) seems a little forced. It totally takes the claws out of all charming and holding spells. It's irrelevant that Dominate Monster would deal 9d8 damage; most fighters by this point have around 300 hit points, and most monsters around 500 to 700; most 9th level spells should be doing far more than the equivalent damage of a 6th or 7th level spell by this point.

From my personal experience, I personally find that taking ALL the danger out and reducing the entire game to hit point attrition contests can be far too stagnating, and I hope that WotC never amends this.

So I'll gladly risk the hold persons and the beer runs: Gimme my occasional save-or-die.

 

[Dinkeldog]

As a DM, I don't enjoy forcing someone to sit on the sidelines fetching beer for the other players.

Actually, I send them out to pick up lunch.

 

[Kusuf ibn Zaid]

Actually, I send them out to pick up lunch.

That sounds like a way to ensure that my fries are soggy and my pickle is limp. I want only 'happy' players fetching my lunch.

- Kusuf

 

[AuraSeer]

That sounds like a way to ensure that my fries are soggy and my pickle is limp.

This here is what we call Too Much Information.

 

[SevenSir]

I like the idea of Hold Person being dispelled by damage to the victim, though it's a little uncomfortably similar to Sleep. It would be cool if my 20 STR Dwarf Fighter decided to carry around a scuthe just to CdG with

lighten up, guys, and house-rule it how you want