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D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

Plan to adopt the new core rules?

  • Yep

    Votes: 262 53.1%
  • Nope

    Votes: 231 46.9%

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
I am mostly going off 2e, fine, so there is a slight chance then, that does not really change anything about my argument that it is far from guaranteed / highly unlikely that you know messengers. Not sure why you think this is important to point out, it changes nothing relevant.


it isn’t, It is not about Ravenloft at all, Ravenloft is just an example…
I was running AL twice a week when CoS was the "season".... It's still not a thing with any reasonable chance. He's overlooking why they are there, what they are doing, and how they interact with the party to throw a hook that is little more than "go kill some stuff[where the most will grab you]".

The important detail is why there are multiple hooks and it's not do visitanti can be buds. The reason was so wotc could integrate the adventure league "factions" into the adventure. At the time players got magic items based on their faction (not really the adventure content). The whole thing is pretty awkward because they never really show up again and have no presence in ravenloft.
 

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Hriston

Dungeon Master of Middle-earth (He/him)
the DM saying that your Criminal has no messengers he knows in Barovia does not make the adventure a railroad
Correct, I didn't say it did. It could also fall under not being told "how the players are supposed to interact with the wider setting and how it might intersect with their PCs' backgrounds".
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
So one of the characters in my new game chose the Urchin background. Their feature allows then to quickly navigate from point A to point B in urban settings. At first blush, this seems ok to be used in a wide variety of locations- urban sprawl is fairly universal. But then I got to thinking about it- surely there's a difference between Waterdeep, Victorian London, Sigil, and the City of Brass?

In Waterdeep, one might take a shortcut through the sewers, one of three "dungeons" in the city (including Undermountain and the dungeon in Knight of the Living Dead).

In Sigil, not only do you have to navigate twisting streets and backalleys, but maybe pop through a door you know the activation requirements for!

Now it's going to be awhile before the party reaches anything larger than a large town, and when they do get to the city, it's going to be a place the Urchin has never been to before. I'm going to assume that they are streetwise enough to quickly get the "lay of the land", as it were, and not bother with any required time to explore and acclimate themselves to the environment, though I did have an idea for how to reconcile the issue.

Just make it a downtime activity to allow your Background to function in a new region! Your Criminal can join a new Thieves' Guild in another city, your Acolyte presents themselves at a new temple, your noble carouses with the upper crust (as per the rules in Xanathar's), and so on!

I wonder if this had been presented in the rules to begin with if it could have saved Backgrounds from the scrap pile.
 

JEB

Legend
I wonder if this had been presented in the rules to begin with if it could have saved Backgrounds from the scrap pile.
I honestly suspect the current design team just doesn't think much of Backgrounds, and the only reason they weren't dropped entirely from 2024 edition was a) backwards compatibility and b) the new version provides a convenient avenue for level-1 feats.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
So one of the characters in my new game chose the Urchin background. Their feature allows then to quickly navigate from point A to point B in urban settings. At first blush, this seems ok to be used in a wide variety of locations- urban sprawl is fairly universal. But then I got to thinking about it- surely there's a difference between Waterdeep, Victorian London, Sigil, and the City of Brass?

In Waterdeep, one might take a shortcut through the sewers, one of three "dungeons" in the city (including Undermountain and the dungeon in Knight of the Living Dead).

In Sigil, not only do you have to navigate twisting streets and backalleys, but maybe pop through a door you know the activation requirements for!

Now it's going to be awhile before the party reaches anything larger than a large town, and when they do get to the city, it's going to be a place the Urchin has never been to before. I'm going to assume that they are streetwise enough to quickly get the "lay of the land", as it were, and not bother with any required time to explore and acclimate themselves to the environment, though I did have an idea for how to reconcile the issue.

Just make it a downtime activity to allow your Background to function in a new region! Your Criminal can join a new Thieves' Guild in another city, your Acolyte presents themselves at a new temple, your noble carouses with the upper crust (as per the rules in Xanathar's), and so on!

I wonder if this had been presented in the rules to begin with if it could have saved Backgrounds from the scrap pile.
That's a great idea! Bonus points for making more use of downtime.
 

Oofta

Legend
I just wanted to respond to this. I imagine your second noble would be very interested in granting the first one an audience and hearing what he has to say and learning whether it can be of some benefit to himself. What happens in the meeting might depend on the power dynamic between them. They both look like they could have quite a bit of wealth at their disposal.

I disagree but I'm done.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I honestly suspect the current design team just doesn't think much of Backgrounds, and the only reason they weren't dropped entirely from 2024 edition was a) backwards compatibility and b) the new version provides a convenient avenue for level-1 feats.
I'd say quite the opposite, the revision of Backgrounds makes them a more obviously major choice now.
 

JEB

Legend
I'd say quite the opposite, the revision of Backgrounds makes them a more obviously major choice now.
If you consider a level-1 feat more essential to character design than stuff like BIFT or the story-based features, sure. Based on many pages of discussion in this thread and elsewhere, there doesn't seem to be universal agreement on that...
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
I honestly suspect the current design team just doesn't think much of Backgrounds, and the only reason they weren't dropped entirely from 2024 edition was a) backwards compatibility and b) the new version provides a convenient avenue for level-1 feats.
I think that Backgrounds, as the design team sees them, are a convenient package of skills, tools, languages, and a feat, that come with an understandable story-reason for all those things and set a tone for your character. They're specifically to deal with the problem of too many choices at char-gen. That you could make up your own and/or write a much more detailed backstory is part of their charm.

I don't think that they'd have commissioned a ton of art for them and given them a half-page each if they "didn't think much of them". They're a really good tool for what they are.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Fair, though to me the game is about the story of the party (or parties, plural, if there's more than one going in the same campaign) rather than the specific characters, who come and go.

Further, that story takes place in a setting of which the PCs are, first and foremost, ordinary inhabitants. Sure they may go on to do extraordinary things; but unless it's a "chosen one" or "chosen few" type of campaign (which I dislike for a bunch of reasons) the players have to accept that their characters are, at the root, ordinary people in what is to them their ordinary world.
I didn't say they were automatically extraordinary. I said that this is their story.

And as such, that world is in the main going to work like an ordinary world would, with obvious story contrivances (such as happening to know someone in every port) kept to a dead minimum unless the dice tell me otherwise.
Since you're playing D&D, the world is very much not going to work like an ordinary world would. The idea of an adventurer is already a tremendous story contrivance.

And--again--this isn't going to be someone in every port. It's going to be once, maybe twice, that they know someone in that particular port. And unless you (or the other people here who make this claim) can actually say they've been in a game where a PC tried to get passage on a ship in every port they were in, this is a very poor argument. It boils down to "this thing that never actually happens is terrible and we can't let it happen because then it might be unrealistic!"

Because even if it did happen, that some PC knew someone at every port (which the feature doesn't even actually say you do!) how would this actually be bad? How would this hurt the game? The only way this would hurt anything is if the people who find this too unrealistic threw tantrums about it, and those people can just learn to stop doing that.
 

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