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D&D (2024) What type of ranger would your prefer for 2024?

What type of ranger?

  • Spell-less Ranger

    Votes: 59 48.4%
  • Spellcasting Ranger

    Votes: 63 51.6%

Greg K

Legend
That's a fighter/rogue with a feat.
Or a straight fighter with 2 feats.
edit: I should have mentioned not requiring feats as it is an optional rule.
Not a whole class.

You get tools from background, Expertise and Hunter's Mark from a feat.

If your rangers isn't talking to animals, plants, and fey, creating and fortifying a camp, using advanced tracking and detection techniques, enduring extreme and magical wilderness hazards, and dealing with the complexities of the fantastical environment, then you are asking for a a whole new 20 levels of a class.
The above is just your opinion of what a ranger should be. Not all campaigns use magical wilderness hazards or fantastical environments (e.g. the groups I have played with and campaigns that I have run myself have never used them). Nor is there a requiremnt that a ranger talk to animals, plants other than your preference. All of this could just be handled with a subclass.
 
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Kalmi

Explorer
This is the problem with those spells,

They have replaced most of the skill system with "I win buttons".
There is no challenge, no improvisation.
Either you have the spell and you succeed or you don't and you fail.

I really hope for 2024 that they include massive skill tables of DCs, and what can be done with what check, and what gives advantage and what gives disadvantage.

I.E: at what distance do you have Disadvantage on Perception check?
Let's be honest, this isn't a Ranger problem, it's a problem with D&D. D&D originated as a game where skills didn't really exist, and the effects of that design paradigm still live on to this day, even when D&D has had skills for 20+ years now, because the magic system was designed for a game without skills. It's very difficult to make a game that's faithful to legacy D&D spells and has a good skill system, because the spells simply do things way better than skills ever can.

You would need to re-design D&D from the ground up, considering skills and magic as complementary systems, making sure they don't step on each other's toes. Just have most spells focused on combat applications, with some other spells that can be useful as utilities, but for a reasonable cost. Maybe you could even build some cool stuff on top of the skill system, like "skill contests" or something like that, I'm sure D&D fans would embrace a system like that-
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
The above is just your opinion of what a ranger should be. Not all campaigns use magical wilderness hazards or fantastical environments. Nor is there a requiremnt that a ranger talk to animals, plants other than your preference. All of this could just be handled with a subclass.
A class still has to scale.

So if the ranger is a wilderness class then wildnerness obstacles have to scale as well.
And D&D is a party based game where party members can use magic to skip real world environment challenges at low level and can expand it to the whole party at mid levels.

So if you want a 20 level class that is built around 20 levels of wilderness obstacles, you need to expand to magical wilderness hazards or fantastical environments and make the class deal with them.

So if you want a 20 level class that is built around 5 levels of wilderness obstacles,the fighter and feats already exist.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Let's be honest, this isn't a Ranger problem, it's a problem with D&D. D&D originated as a game where skills didn't really exist, and the effects of that design paradigm still live on to this day, even when D&D has had skills for 20+ years now, because the magic system was designed for a game without skills. It's very difficult to make a game that's faithful to legacy D&D spells and has a good skill system, because the spells simply do things way better than skills ever can.

You would need to re-design D&D from the ground up, considering skills and magic as complementary systems, making sure they don't step on each other's toes. Just have most spells focused on combat applications, with some other spells that can be useful as utilities, but for a reasonable cost. Maybe you could even build some cool stuff on top of the skill system, like "skill contests" or something like that, I'm sure D&D fans would embrace a system like that-

1689238881221.png
 

Greg K

Legend
Let's be honest, this isn't a Ranger problem, it's a problem with D&D. D&D originated as a game where skills didn't really exist, and the effects of that design paradigm still live on to this day, even when D&D has had skills for 20+ years now, because the magic system was designed for a game without skills. It's very difficult to make a game that's faithful to legacy D&D spells and has a good skill system, because the spells simply do things way better than skills ever can.
That is not true. While there was no skill system in the earliest editions, class (or secondary skills and/or class in AD&D before the introduction of non-weapon proficiencies) were often used to determine what skills a character knew and "skill checks" were often resolved by ability checks, saving throws, or however else the DM decided to resolve skill actions (e.g. d6 rolls, percentage rolls, etc.).
 
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Kalmi

Explorer
That is not true. While there was no skill system in the earliest editions, class (or secondary skills and/or class in AD&D before the introduction of non-weapon proficiencies) were often used to determine what skills a character knew and resolved by ability checks, saving throws, or however else the DM decided to resolve skill actions (e.g. d6 rolls, percentage rolls, etc.).
Yes that's true, but those class-specific skills were fairly specific and few compared to a full-blown skill system (although calling 5e's skills "full-blown" might be too generous). Magic was far more versatile, with the cost of requiring preparation and a precious spell slot. And that's another problem with 5e's magic, because so many of the drawbacks of spells have been mitigated through mechanics like spontaneous casting, way more spell slots, etc. I'm not even saying we should go back to "pure" Vancian, but designers need to consider more how magic and skills interact.
 

Greg K

Legend
Yes that's true, but those class-specific skills were fairly specific and few compared to a full-blown skill system (although calling 5e's skills "full-blown" might be too generous). Magic was far more versatile, with the cost of requiring preparation and a precious spell slot. And that's another problem with 5e's magic, because so many of the drawbacks of spells have been mitigated through mechanics like spontaneous casting, way more spell slots, etc. I'm not even saying we should go back to "pure" Vancian, but designers need to consider more how magic and skills interact.
I was not referring specifically to listed class specific skills (e.g. the various Thieves skills). I am referring to things like a Fighter climbing a non sheer wall or controlling a spooked horse, a wizard trying to move silently, etc.
Edit: I agree about designers and the interaction of magic and skills
 

Eew, I hope not! Let the DM use their brain and make judgment calls instead of forcing everything to conform to stock DCs.

The key is to do both. You keep a generic system in reserve and then dictate a set of DC lists correlating to some typical challenges.

Works even better in both cases if you assume a degree of success system.

GMs who don't want to follow the book are still free to and have a dearth of examples to draw from, and those who can't deal with improvising it on the fly get plenty to go on too.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
As a player and DM, these are the type of spells I don't want in a campaign (and I remove as a DM). Examples of other spells that I remove include Create Food and Water*, Heroes Feast, Rope Trick, and Leomund's Hut.
*If I allow Create Food and Water, the spell is limited to clerics of one particular deity.
That's when we replace the DM: when they declare 'No. You WILL engage with the parts that aren't fun for you and you will LIKE IT.'
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Eew, I hope not! Let the DM use their brain and make judgment calls instead of forcing everything to conform to stock DCs.
Problem is 'let' becomes 'force' when you remove other options. And making up DCs on the spot all the times because some people like doing extra work isn't getting more people lining up to DM.
 

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