D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[Scott Christian]

The only real difference between the two books is that FRCS2 was published under ISBN9780786965601 rather than including the words Forgotten Realms Toril -OR- Ravenloft on the cover but you had no issue with asserting that a ravenloft GM should adjust the setting for that FR-bound background earlier. AlsoI don't think you are "reading it right now" because it says this

Spoiler

"Feature: House Connections
As an agent of your house, you can always get food and lodging for yourself and your friends at a house enclave."

Are you telling me that the earlier j-random criminal outfit has infiltrated & subverted ravenloft to the degree that it can get messages along with a full support network in & out for a player with the criminal background to make use of that background feature but FR is somehow shielded from similar setting pollution because Eberron's megacorp analogs lack the capabilities of some criminal outfit from FR?

I'm sorry. Maybe I am not being clear. You are not using the book, you are using a line from the book. Here is what it says about houses:
"Long ago, the families that carry the marks joined together to form Dragonmarked houses. Over the course of centuries, these houses have used their gifts to establish powerful monopolies. For example, only House Lyrandar heirs with the Mark of Storms, can pilot airships. The control over vital services gives the houses tremendous power.
In the past the Dragonmarked houses were held in check by the united kingdom of Galifar. But in the wake of the Last War, people wonder if any nation has the power to enforce its wishes on the houses." (Pg. 37)
Notice a few things here, especially since this is when they introduce the houses. All the references are from Eberron. Notice it doesn't mention Neverwinter or Ten Towns or any other place in the FR. Notice it doesn't reference any wars in the FR - only a war in Khorvaire. Better yet, go read the first chapter of the book, you know, the one that tells you how to use the book. And then highlight all the times it mentions that realm. (Hint - almost every other sentence will be highlighted.)
Once that is done, now go pull some random line out from a house and explain why it must exist in FR. It doesn't.

But...

That doesn't make it impossible, or even unlikely, that the DM can't place it into the FR realms setting. Somewhere on the Storm Coast, there may be a Dragonmark house.

I find it fascinating that no one complained about squeezing in the beloved Saltmarsh adventures into their FR map. Yet, to squeeze in a dragonmarked house or two into an entire continent is impossible.

 

[Faolyn]

What makes the folk hero so special?

Same thing that makes all the other backgrounds that give similar features "so special."

Which makes the ability dissociative, exactly what 4e was often criticized for. Things that just work because (and every mechanic you can't explain is indistinguishable from magic...)

<shrug> I find it easy to explain a lot of these things in extremely non-magical ways.

Not more often. All the time going by the mechanics.

Nope. The mechanics doesn't say "every time." It just says that commoners will help you out. In fact, it even gives them an out: "unless you have shown yourself to be a danger to them," which is what PCs do a huge amount of the time. It's entirely within the intention of that feature for a commoner to look at a character who is covered in battered armor, scars, and who knows what else--I was in a game where the party carried around the pickled head of one of our defeated foes--and decide that that means that the PCs are too much of a danger for them.

In fact, there's a huge amount of PC behavior that would automatically deem them too dangerous, even if every single commoner was somehow compelled to help out every time. Which they're not.

Maybe. But there are other mechanics that could be used for the same effect. And I recently saw a nice video about exactly this. As soon as you write an ability that has such a special effect, giving this to other people will be a problem or have to go too a lot of hoops to get this exact effect.

Except that as we've seen, this isn't really a special effect as lots of backgrounds have the exact same mechanic, just with different parts of the population. Acolytes, entertainers, guild members and nobles, just from the PHB. They all can get shelter and some other benefit because of their backgrounds. The closest you get to having to jump through any hoops here is the guild member having to pay a fee to stay in good standing with their guild.

 

[Faolyn]

I think the point being made is that if the whole party was involved in killing those horrible monsters then it makes sense that (barring any of the PCs doing something stupid, never a guarantee!) the whole party would be seen by the villagers as heroes, rather than just one character.

Except that it's still perfectly logical for the folk hero to stand out. It's also logical that they might not. It would depend on the actual battle.

I think it's the "just works" aspect that (sorry) doesn't work, particularly where things would be better handled case by case with each situation being different. Very few things should ever be automatic.

And it's not automatic. There's nothing in the background that says that this will happen every single time.

A sailor in a new faraway port might have some generic knowledge of wind and tides, but if all her experience was on big age-of-sail dreadnaughts and the only ships here are oar-powered biremes and triremes, her specific knowledge of the ships in this port and how they function and are crewed etc. is going to be minimal at best: you can't just give her a free pass.

D&D doesn't have rules for unfamiliar tech, beyond maybe penalties or disadvantage.

 

[Faolyn]

I find it fascinating that no one complained about squeezing in the beloved Saltmarsh adventures into their FR map. Yet, to squeeze in a dragonmarked house or two into an entire continent is impossible.

To be fair, the dragonmarks are a very Eberron thing, using mechanics that exist in no other setting, while marshes can be found everywhere. Even on desert-y Athas.

But the easiest thing to do is to simply change "dragonmarked house" to "noble house."

 

[Scott Christian]

To be fair, the dragonmarks are a very Eberron thing, using mechanics that exist in no other setting, while marshes can be found everywhere. Even on desert-y Athas.

But the easiest thing to do is to simply change "dragonmarked house" to "noble house."

That is truth, but my point is really that they can be squeezed in - even if it runs on a mechanic that is Eberron-only-ish. (I also think the DM has the right to say no.)

 

[Faolyn]

But other than magic, there is literally nothing setting them apart from the other PCs. If the PC is in a group, then the group did something awesome. You don't need a background feature to have people who helped save the day.

And those other players have their own background features that let them get their own benefits.

Again, I think the DM and player should work on how to integrate a background into the story and campaign if the people at the table care. I do it on a pretty regular basis, but some people just don't really give a flying fig.

Sure, of course they should. But it's very silly to say a background is bad just because it requires a few moments to think of a reason why their feature makes sense.

 

[tetrasodium]

I'm sorry. Maybe I am not being clear. You are not using the book, you are using a line from the book. Here is what it says about houses:
"Long ago, the families that carry the marks joined together to form Dragonmarked houses. Over the course of centuries, these houses have used their gifts to establish powerful monopolies. For example, only House Lyrandar heirs with the Mark of Storms, can pilot airships. The control over vital services gives the houses tremendous power.
In the past the Dragonmarked houses were held in check by the united kingdom of Galifar. But in the wake of the Last War, people wonder if any nation has the power to enforce its wishes on the houses." (Pg. 37)
Notice a few things here, especially since this is when they introduce the houses. All the references are from Eberron. Notice it doesn't mention Neverwinter or Ten Towns or any other place in the FR. Notice it doesn't reference any wars in the FR - only a war in Khorvaire. Better yet, go read the first chapter of the book, you know, the one that tells you how to use the book. And then highlight all the times it mentions that realm. (Hint - almost every other sentence will be highlighted.)
Once that is done, now go pull some random line out from a house and explain why it must exist in FR. It doesn't.

But...

That doesn't make it impossible, or even unlikely, that the DM can't place it into the FR realms setting. Somewhere on the Storm Coast, there may be a Dragonmark house.

I find it fascinating that no one complained about squeezing in the beloved Saltmarsh adventures into their FR map. Yet, to squeeze in a dragonmarked house or two into an entire continent is impossible.

No you are being explicitly clear, that is the problem. The thing you are clear on is that when it's FR Needing to change rather than the previous example of ravenloft suddenly there is a different standard in place making the GM is free to protect the setting's themes tone and lore.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm sorry. Maybe I am not being clear. You are not using the book, you are using a line from the book. Here is what it says about houses:
"Long ago, the families that carry the marks joined together to form Dragonmarked houses. Over the course of centuries, these houses have used their gifts to establish powerful monopolies. For example, only House Lyrandar heirs with the Mark of Storms, can pilot airships. The control over vital services gives the houses tremendous power.
In the past the Dragonmarked houses were held in check by the united kingdom of Galifar. But in the wake of the Last War, people wonder if any nation has the power to enforce its wishes on the houses." (Pg. 37)
Notice a few things here, especially since this is when they introduce the houses. All the references are from Eberron. Notice it doesn't mention Neverwinter or Ten Towns or any other place in the FR. Notice it doesn't reference any wars in the FR - only a war in Khorvaire. Better yet, go read the first chapter of the book, you know, the one that tells you how to use the book. And then highlight all the times it mentions that realm. (Hint - almost every other sentence will be highlighted.)
Once that is done, now go pull some random line out from a house and explain why it must exist in FR. It doesn't.

But...

That doesn't make it impossible, or even unlikely, that the DM can't place it into the FR realms setting. Somewhere on the Storm Coast, there may be a Dragonmark house.

I find it fascinating that no one complained about squeezing in the beloved Saltmarsh adventures into their FR map. Yet, to squeeze in a dragonmarked house or two into an entire continent is impossible.

No 5e Greyhawk other than GoS, which isn't really a setting book. Makes a difference to some people.

 

[Scott Christian]

No you are being explicitly clear, that is the problem. The thing you are clear on is that when it's FR Needing to change rather than the previous example of ravenloft suddenly there is a different standard in place making the GM is free to protect the setting's themes tone and lore.

No. When we are talking about FR, the DM has the final say. When we are talking about any other locale, the DM has the final say. There is no contradiction in my statement.

The thing you think is a contradiction - the DM can work background features in no matter the setting - is not a contradiction. It is a statement of fact. Are some background features or setting specific backgrounds more difficult than others? Yes. But they all should require some work on the DM's part, especially if you want them to feel natural to the narrative.

 

[Oofta]

And those other players have their own background features that let them get their own benefits.


Sure, of course they should. But it's very silly to say a background is bad just because it requires a few moments to think of a reason why their feature makes sense.

But you've given no reason why the folk hero's background give them special consideration. It just sort of happens.

For me? The folk hero did something cool before they became an adventurer and word spread, they became a hero of the people. But once they're beyond that area of influence? It's illogical to treat them any different. It's fine if it works for you and your group, it's just not the style of play I want.