D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[Oofta]

They don't have to recognize that person as a specific folk hero; they need to recognize that they seem like a hero. There's no magic and no turning brains off; just a bit of creativity.

Did the PCs just arrive there minutes ago? OK, you might have a problem. Have they been there a day or longer? No problem at all. If they fought a monster, then while they were in the middle of battle some NPC woodcutter heard the sounds, saw what was going on, and then ran away because they don't want to be near a battle--but they saw the PCs. Or maybe they found the monster's corpse and then saw the PCs, spattered in blood, and put 2 and 2 together. If the PCs sat around a table at the pub talking about their plans, someone overheard them and came to the conclusion the folk hero was the leader of the party. If the PCs decided to sell some gear that they looted off of bodies they killed, word is going to get around.

Then, because the folk hero has that trait, they latch onto them as the hero they deserve.

Or maybe the PCs inadvertently did something that helped the townsfolk--remember the Firefly episode "Jaynestown"? Or maybe the PCs didn't do anything, but arrived right after something particularly fortuitous happened, and the NPCs haven't learned that post hoc doesn't necessarily mean proptor hoc.

Because when you get down to it, it is, as Oofta said, a very minor benefit--the NPC is willing to give the PC a nice bowl of hot soup and let them camp out in the barn. It seems weird to not let this happen because the PCs are new in town.

So ... they're recognized because of ... magic?

I was thinking about this a bit more and the biggest issue I have is how they describe the feature "Since you come from the ranks of the common folk, you fit in among them with ease." Which ... okay. But most other backgrounds could have a similar origin story. Heck, even the noble raised by commoners is a common trope in fantasy. Why is the folk hero really any different? If the entire party just saved the village from an invasion by bloodthirsty trolls, why would the folk hero get any special recognition?

It's just, I don't know, weak. There's not really much there there so to speak. I'd rather chat with my players and find out if they care much about this kind of stuff and if they want a tie into potential campaign plot hooks. Which is why I think the new backgrounds are better, they give actual concrete benefits without having to just say it works "just because".

 

[tetrasodium]

Do you consider compromise a weakness, why are you so unaccepting of any modification.

Like this issue is so easily fixed.

Compromise was what 3.x & 4e backgrounds couraged. The player worked with their gm while accepting the boundaries of role and responsibility for gm/player and occasionally could make a solid claim the GM could agree or disagree with for why their background should grant relevant knowledge/access/bonus.

A chapter focused on bulking up a particular niche of a GM's skillet written to the wrong side of the gm screen with mechanical elements that avoid compromise or collaboration in favor of riveting gameplay like "oh I have $feature so we can x" is more like gunboat diplomancy. The recent back and forth over the RAW and ability of the gm to do anything other than simply rubber-stamp folk hero is evidence of exactly that

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Compromise was what 3.x & 4e backgrounds couraged. The player worked with their gm while accepting the boundaries of role and responsibility for gm/player and occasionally could make a solid claim the GM could agree or disagree with for why their background should grant relevant knowledge/access/bonus.

A chapter focused on bulking up a particular niche of a GM's skillet written to the wrong side of the gm screen with mechanical elements that avoid compromise or collaboration in favor of riveting gameplay like "oh I have $feature so we can x" is more like gunboat diplomancy. The recent back and forth over the RAW and ability of the gm to do anything other than simply rubber-stamp folk hero is evidence of exactly that

I think you are projecting here. Cause there has not been any notable change.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think you are projecting here. Cause there has not been any notable change.

No and I literally quoted the change earlier in the thread

D&D (2024) - Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

We don’t have the 2024 presentation, but we do have the playtest documents. The playtest backgrounds are completely lacking in a feature that explicitly gives the player permission to posit connections for their character with the game world related to their background. I’d say that’s not very...

www.enworld.org

 

[mamba]

They don't have to recognize that person as a specific folk hero; they need to recognize that they seem like a hero. There's no magic and no turning brains off; just a bit of creativity.

we are not going to agree on this… the villagers do not do the same for the characters without the background, so it is about more than being heroic

Did the PCs just arrive there minutes ago? OK, you might have a problem. Have they been there a day or longer? No problem at all.

as I said, they can build such a reputation again in the new area, it would take more than a day though and depends heavily on what the chars do

Because when you get down to it, it is, as Oofta said, a very minor benefit--the NPC is willing to give the PC a nice bowl of hot soup and let them camp out in the barn. It seems weird to not let this happen because the PCs are new in town.

I was not arguing against this part but about shielding them from the law and others

 

[MonsterEnvy]

No and I literally quoted the change earlier in the thread

D&D (2024) - Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

We don’t have the 2024 presentation, but we do have the playtest documents. The playtest backgrounds are completely lacking in a feature that explicitly gives the player permission to posit connections for their character with the game world related to their background. I’d say that’s not very...

www.enworld.org

I read that and don't agree with you.

 

[Faolyn]

So ... they're recognized because of ... magic?

No? Nothing I wrote was magic, either figuratively or literally. Everything I wrote is perfectly plausible and nothing works "just because." Unless you think that nobody would ever see or hear the PCs doing something, and that the average townsfolk wouldn't see killing horrible monsters as something a hero would do.

I just think it sucks that everything has to rely on a mechanic--it leaves no room for interpretation or roleplay, and it means things work "just because" a mechanic says it does, even if it doesn't make sense.

we are not going to agree on this… the villagers do not do the same for the characters without the background, so it is about more than being heroic

It's funny--Oofta doesn't like it because it's not a mechanic and therefore it "just works", and you don't like it because it is a mechanic that's unique to them and therefore it "just works."

Because you can have commoners going out of their way to help a sailor, sage, or noble, if it makes sense. It's just that the folk hero has that happen more often.

I was not arguing against this part but about shielding them from the law and others

Which can be as minor as "nope, I didn't see them," when the guards come around. Are you thinking that the commoners would always go out of their way to stash the character in a safe room and make them a new fake ID?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

No? Nothing I wrote was magic, either figuratively or literally. Everything I wrote is perfectly plausible and nothing works "just because."

It seems, like it is not. I kinda agree with Oofta.

Unless you think that nobody would ever see or hear the PCs doing something, and that the average townsfolk wouldn't see killing horrible monsters as something a hero would do.

What makes the folk hero so special? And isn't he a folk hero before going out on adventure already?

I just think it sucks that everything has to rely on a mechanic--it leaves no room for interpretation or roleplay, and it means things work "just because" a mechanic says it does, even if it doesn't make sense.

Which makes the ability dissociative, exactly what 4e was often criticized for. Things that just work because (and every mechanic you can't explain is indistinguishable from magic...)

It's funny--Oofta doesn't like it because it's not a mechanic and therefore it "just works", and you don't like it because it is a mechanic that's unique to them and therefore it "just works."

?

Because you can have commoners going out of their way to help a sailor, sage, or noble, if it makes sense. It's just that the folk hero has that happen more often.

Not more often. All the time going by the mechanics.
Really, I lile that quirk. But it seems to get old sometimes. I'd rather give out a story token for every background that they can use one time in play to overrule the DM.

Which can be as minor as "nope, I didn't see them," when the guards come around. Are you thinking that the commoners would always go out of their way to stash the character in a safe room and make them a new fake ID?

Maybe. But there are other mechanics that could be used for the same effect. And I recently saw a nice video about exactly this. As soon as you write an ability that has such a special effect, giving this to other people will be a problem or have to go too a lot of hoops to get this exact effect.

 

[Oofta]

No? Nothing I wrote was magic, either figuratively or literally. Everything I wrote is perfectly plausible and nothing works "just because." Unless you think that nobody would ever see or hear the PCs doing something, and that the average townsfolk wouldn't see killing horrible monsters as something a hero would do.

But other than magic, there is literally nothing setting them apart from the other PCs. If the PC is in a group, then the group did something awesome. You don't need a background feature to have people who helped save the day.

I just think it sucks that everything has to rely on a mechanic--it leaves no room for interpretation or roleplay, and it means things work "just because" a mechanic says it does, even if it doesn't make sense.


It's funny--Oofta doesn't like it because it's not a mechanic and therefore it "just works", and you don't like it because it is a mechanic that's unique to them and therefore it "just works."

Because you can have commoners going out of their way to help a sailor, sage, or noble, if it makes sense. It's just that the folk hero has that happen more often.


Which can be as minor as "nope, I didn't see them," when the guards come around. Are you thinking that the commoners would always go out of their way to stash the character in a safe room and make them a new fake ID?

Again, I think the DM and player should work on how to integrate a background into the story and campaign if the people at the table care. I do it on a pretty regular basis, but some people just don't really give a flying fig.

 

[Lanefan]

No? Nothing I wrote was magic, either figuratively or literally. Everything I wrote is perfectly plausible and nothing works "just because." Unless you think that nobody would ever see or hear the PCs doing something, and that the average townsfolk wouldn't see killing horrible monsters as something a hero would do.

I think the point being made is that if the whole party was involved in killing those horrible monsters then it makes sense that (barring any of the PCs doing something stupid, never a guarantee!) the whole party would be seen by the villagers as heroes, rather than just one character.

Now of course the other PCs could say "Nah, we were there too, but it was mostly Jocasta's doing" in order to turn the villagers' admiration toward the one with the folk-hero background; but that's purely a player-side roleplay choice.

I just think it sucks that everything has to rely on a mechanic--it leaves no room for interpretation or roleplay, and it means things work "just because" a mechanic says it does, even if it doesn't make sense.

It's funny--Oofta doesn't like it because it's not a mechanic and therefore it "just works", and you don't like it because it is a mechanic that's unique to them and therefore it "just works."

I think it's the "just works" aspect that (sorry) doesn't work, particularly where things would be better handled case by case with each situation being different. Very few things should ever be automatic.

A sailor in a new faraway port might have some generic knowledge of wind and tides, but if all her experience was on big age-of-sail dreadnaughts and the only ships here are oar-powered biremes and triremes, her specific knowledge of the ships in this port and how they function and are crewed etc. is going to be minimal at best: you can't just give her a free pass.