D&D 5E Do we need a Fifth Edition Revival (5ER)?

[M.T. Black]

Everything you've purchased on D&D Beyond you access through the continued blessing and support of Hasbro. Any time you've read "they can't come in and take your books and keep you from playing the old games" - that is exactly the case of D&D Beyond. Hasbro already pulled access to 4e - and there's no reason to think that they won't do the same for 5e at their discretion.
You can't download or store it. It's in the cloud. If/when they shut down the servers, you've lost every item you've purchased. It's the same as if Chris Cocks or Cynthia Williams has come into your house and yanked every book from your shelf. It's planned obsolescence and an intentional way to get you to repurchase things in a cycle.

Yep, this is the exact concern. People may think I'm fear mongering if I point to subscription fees, but surely this is the end goal. Perhaps it will start with saying, "It costs money to maintain your account and give you access to these books. Starting next month, we are introducing a small fee..."

 

[overgeeked]

Games aren’t dead when they’re actively supported by not only the official publisher but also dozens, if not hundreds, of other publishers. Not only is the declaration of the death of 5E wildly premature, any need of a “revival” is also wildly premature.

 

[Quickleaf]

So? The rules are in the Creative Commons now. If people are playing it in the Hasbro way, its because that's what they want. The edge cases are welcome to go play on the edge. And I think their is plenty of evidence that they are.

Why? Why do we, either DMs or Players, need that? Millions are playing with what they have. They are having fun and joying themselves. It's not like they have run out of enjoyment have they?

I don't think most D&D fans want that. IMO the game has grown with 5E because of its openness. You don't have to dedicate your life to it in order to play it enjoyable.

I can't speak for most D&D fans, but I can speak for myself.

Why do I want an active community that shares and cultivates new ideas, mechanics, and experiences in the 5E space?

Because every time I've looked for and tried out new ideas, it has lead to better play experiences. Some trial and error of course, but the trend has been really positive. I'm a better GM for it. Areas that were difficult at the table, I am now resolving in a much better way. My ability to read a rule and anticipate problems with it at the table has vastly increased. It has facilitated more clarity and understanding with players who want to create certain characters that the rules struggle with. By exposure to new ideas, I have a better pulse on the sorts of things I want from an adventure – that had I not been exposed to those ideas, might have never occurred to me as a possibility.

The other reason is unrelated to innovation and self-improvement, sadly, and is about the business trends I observe within Hasbro. But I don't need to beat that poor horse here. Everyone needs to make their own judgment call on that front.

 

[M.T. Black]

Games aren’t dead when they’re actively supported by not only the official publisher but also dozens, if not hundreds, of other publishers. Not only is the declaration of the death of 5E wildly premature, any need of a “revival” is also wildly premature.

Well, the original claim from Riggs is that the "golden age" of 5E is dead, not 5E itself. But I don't want the "revival" language to distract from the heart of the article, which is a 5E future driven by fans and 3PP rather than Hasbro.

 

[MerricB]

There was a golden age of official D&D 5E products. It ended several years ago.

In retrospect, some of them weren't that great, but there was a real buzz about each of them. (Xanathar is part of the age, Tasha's is not).

But, as it happened, we started getting a lot of first class non-official D&D products (alternatively, products from 3PPs). And for some companies, those have been getting better and better. (I'm looking primarily at Kobold Press, but you likely can name other companies).

The OGL debacle and the uncertainty of what the 2024 rules will be like mean we're in... uncertain times.

We're also in a global slowdown, especially for gaming products. (So many layoffs in the video game space last year). A lot of stuff was artificially boosted under covid lockdowns, strangely enough. And we're getting the correction now. So, yes, things are changing.

But given we're the size of a teacup compared to the greater ocean of gaming...

Cheers,
Merric

 

[Blue]

This requires a massive shift of intention from the player base. Since WotC D&D is the largest current influx of players to RPGs as a whole, I don't understand where this is expecting to exert influence. Even if some of the media-focused new games pull new RPG players in, it wouldn't be to a 5ER but to their own systems.

Basically, this sounds like a fine idea that has no way to generate the traction needed to be meaningful.

 

[MerricB]

Well, the original claim from Riggs is that the "golden age" of 5E is dead, not 5E itself. But I don't want the "revival" language to distract from the heart of the article, which is a 5E future driven by fans and 3PP rather than Hasbro.

I'd say we're already in that era - for those who care. Books like Cubicle 7's Uncharted Journeys are changing the way some people play the game. A5E likewise. Etc. Etc.

But - for the most part - people don't care, because the core rulebooks are all they use.

Cheers,
Merric

 

[Clint_L]

I am not super interested in nonD&D 5e games unless they are a radically different application or setting. But for fantasy, I'm good with D&D. Not that all of these games, and ones based on earlier iterations of D&D, don't have their own good points or things they do better. I think Pathfinder's action economy is easier to use and more intuitive, for example. But on aggregate, they are basically just different flavours of D&D, and I can already do all that stuff using D&D, without buying new books, and facilitated by DnDBeyond, which for me was and continues to be a game changer.

So I think non-D&D, fantasy RPG gaming will always be a niche, especially using 5e. They're mostly of interest to hard-core folks, like the one who post on these forums, who are sick of Hasbro. Fair enough. The fantasy RPG that I want to try out is Dungeon World, because I've played other PbtA games and they are a different enough experience from 5e for it to be meaingful. But even there...I'm kinda good for fantasy, with D&D. So I'll probably stick with Monster Hearts.

I guess what I'm saying is that non-D&D 5e games that just look like D&D but with different classes and species, or whatever...eh. They just don't really seem new. And a 5e "revival" when I'm currently playing 5e seems superfluous. If I really want to go back to 2014 I can just do a campaign where I deselect all of the later books from DDB, and done.

 

[Nebulous]

I run Kobold Press written modules almost exclusively at this point. They have some really good stuff! And actually care about lore! Weird, I know.

Did you run Margreve? That was good. I mixed it with several other of Kobold's stuff. They really do put out amazing products.

 

[mamba]

Yep, this is the exact concern. People may think I'm fear mongering if I point to subscription fees, but surely this is the end goal. Perhaps it will start with saying, "It costs money to maintain your account and give you access to these books. Starting next month, we are introducing a small fee..."

they need to have that book available for all the subscribers anyway, for everyone else they just keep the information that they bought it

I am not expecting them to stop having free accounts.