Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Worlds of Design: Tough Times at the Top
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 8378584" data-attributes="member: 6801845"><p>I've run games up to 20th level in 5E and intend to do it again with my current campaign. I don't have much of a problem running them as with few modifications, about the only house rule I have is that banishment doesn't work but that has more to do with how my cosmology works than power balance.</p><p></p><p>I <em>do</em> lean into attrition and multiple encounters between rests along with multiple waves of enemies, illusions, terrain and so on. Yes, casters have incredible spells at their fingertips. On the other hand, meteor storm is worthless if the big fight is taking place in the middle of a crowded city. Use your big spells on that BBEG? Oops, either legendary resistance kicks in or it was really a stand-in. </p><p></p><p>Of course, sometimes the group will stomp all over your carefully planned encounter and crumple up your big bad like a used tissue and toss him aside. That's great! They should feel awesome now and then, because they are. The trick is that if every fight has no challenge the ones the players dominate don't feel special.</p><p></p><p>My main guidelines don't really differ that much for high level play as for mid-level play. </p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Solos don't work very well in straight-up fights so you have to be a bit creative. A dragon will use terrain to fly off behind total cover while waiting for their breath weapon to recharge, they'll try to separate the group or even just swoop in and carry off one individual. While they're not in combat they'll send in minions to distract the group.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Enemies don't attack in fireball formation. Attack from all directions, including from above or below.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Use subterfuge and misdirection. Illusions and patsies are a pretty common thing to throw at the group. Just don't overdo it, as this can be frustrating.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Switch the goals. You're opposed by a literal demon army, instead of killing everything you need to get the McGuffin to safety or push the big red button.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Run away! Sometimes the goal for the PCs is just to escape, other times the BBEG runs away when the going gets tough. Just don't <em>assume</em> or <em>require</em> that the BBEG gets away. If the wizard counterspells the BBEG's teleport, so be it.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Use terrain and environmental features. Dense fog or impenetrable darkness can add a different feel to a combat, especially if individuals become separated.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Customize monsters, especially grunts. If the situation calls for a decent number of opponents I'll take relatively low level monsters, give them advantage and/or a big plus on attacks and saves, double or triple damage but keep the HP the same. They're "specially blessed" or magically "juiced" for the fight.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Don't be afraid to target their weaknesses. At these levels the PCs are well known, their reputations and tactics probably precede them especially for intelligent foes.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Consider fudging a bit for genius level monsters. While I don't fudge dice, I do sometimes switch up spells, capabilities or resources. Just because the monster has a 25 intelligence and should be thinking 10 moves ahead doesn't mean that as a DM I can. Just be careful to not abuse this.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Switch things up mid combat. It turns out what you thought was a straight fight was a trap, you have to stop one of the opponents from ringing the alarm bell, the NPC you thought was dead is really a captive you now have to rescue and so on.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If the fight is a foregone conclusion and the PCs are just mopping up, consider just calling it.</li> </ul><p>Most of all, remember to try to keep the fights dynamic and flowing. The goal is to have fun, not to make fights hopeless. After all as a DM I have infinite dragons, I can always wipe out any party of any level if I really want to do so. High level campaigns can be difficult and there are times fights can drag on if they just become slug-fests, but I've enjoyed playing and DMing them.</p><p></p><p>So those are just some of my off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts. Don't be afraid of high level games, they can be a lot of fun for player and DM alike. Feel free to throw the kitchen sink and a mob of balrogs at the party if it makes sense and embrace the gonzo nature of high level play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 8378584, member: 6801845"] I've run games up to 20th level in 5E and intend to do it again with my current campaign. I don't have much of a problem running them as with few modifications, about the only house rule I have is that banishment doesn't work but that has more to do with how my cosmology works than power balance. I [I]do[/I] lean into attrition and multiple encounters between rests along with multiple waves of enemies, illusions, terrain and so on. Yes, casters have incredible spells at their fingertips. On the other hand, meteor storm is worthless if the big fight is taking place in the middle of a crowded city. Use your big spells on that BBEG? Oops, either legendary resistance kicks in or it was really a stand-in. Of course, sometimes the group will stomp all over your carefully planned encounter and crumple up your big bad like a used tissue and toss him aside. That's great! They should feel awesome now and then, because they are. The trick is that if every fight has no challenge the ones the players dominate don't feel special. My main guidelines don't really differ that much for high level play as for mid-level play. [LIST] [*]Solos don't work very well in straight-up fights so you have to be a bit creative. A dragon will use terrain to fly off behind total cover while waiting for their breath weapon to recharge, they'll try to separate the group or even just swoop in and carry off one individual. While they're not in combat they'll send in minions to distract the group. [*]Enemies don't attack in fireball formation. Attack from all directions, including from above or below. [*]Use subterfuge and misdirection. Illusions and patsies are a pretty common thing to throw at the group. Just don't overdo it, as this can be frustrating. [*]Switch the goals. You're opposed by a literal demon army, instead of killing everything you need to get the McGuffin to safety or push the big red button. [*]Run away! Sometimes the goal for the PCs is just to escape, other times the BBEG runs away when the going gets tough. Just don't [I]assume[/I] or [I]require[/I] that the BBEG gets away. If the wizard counterspells the BBEG's teleport, so be it. [*]Use terrain and environmental features. Dense fog or impenetrable darkness can add a different feel to a combat, especially if individuals become separated. [*]Customize monsters, especially grunts. If the situation calls for a decent number of opponents I'll take relatively low level monsters, give them advantage and/or a big plus on attacks and saves, double or triple damage but keep the HP the same. They're "specially blessed" or magically "juiced" for the fight. [*]Don't be afraid to target their weaknesses. At these levels the PCs are well known, their reputations and tactics probably precede them especially for intelligent foes. [*]Consider fudging a bit for genius level monsters. While I don't fudge dice, I do sometimes switch up spells, capabilities or resources. Just because the monster has a 25 intelligence and should be thinking 10 moves ahead doesn't mean that as a DM I can. Just be careful to not abuse this. [*]Switch things up mid combat. It turns out what you thought was a straight fight was a trap, you have to stop one of the opponents from ringing the alarm bell, the NPC you thought was dead is really a captive you now have to rescue and so on. [*]If the fight is a foregone conclusion and the PCs are just mopping up, consider just calling it. [/LIST] Most of all, remember to try to keep the fights dynamic and flowing. The goal is to have fun, not to make fights hopeless. After all as a DM I have infinite dragons, I can always wipe out any party of any level if I really want to do so. High level campaigns can be difficult and there are times fights can drag on if they just become slug-fests, but I've enjoyed playing and DMing them. So those are just some of my off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts. Don't be afraid of high level games, they can be a lot of fun for player and DM alike. Feel free to throw the kitchen sink and a mob of balrogs at the party if it makes sense and embrace the gonzo nature of high level play. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Worlds of Design: Tough Times at the Top
Top