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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Why is non-magical flying so limited for PCs?
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<blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 9303399" data-attributes="member: 6915329"><p>And as I said, if the flyer is carrying party members over obstacles, they don't get XP for them and they miss out on any boons they might have found by going through them. I do milestone/story-based leveling, but even then I would say that if you choose to go around the challenges, then your next level is going to be pushed back that much further. Remind them of this when they encounter the challenge or combat, before they choose to go around it.</p><p></p><p>Or, as I also said, simply create new challenges specifically for flying creatures. Go up too high and there will be powerful blasts of winds they have to fight through, and there's already weather-based challenges. There are plenty of flying monsters, and you can always make more. How about carnivorous clouds? Reskin an ooze, push it up a couple of sizes, and give it a fly speed.</p><p></p><p>This isn't targeting flying PCs any more than having ground-based challenges and monsters is targeting walking PCs.</p><p></p><p>Or, as [USER=6747251]@Micah Sweet[/USER] said, simply create those rules. </p><p></p><p>Weight or size limitations make total sense. In the real world, most birds of prey seem to be able to carry between a third and a half of their weight, although I can't find out for how long (as with most things in real life, it can't be boiled down to a simple formula). While some birds can carry more, at least for short periods of time, there's that whole square/cube law that means a 180-pound dragonborn isn't going to be able to carry the same amount as a 20-pound eagle. So it makes a lot of sense to say that flying PCs can't carry a PC that's more than one size smaller then they are, they can't fly while wearing heavy armor, they can't fly while carrying bulky items, etc. </p><p></p><p>Need another justification? In nearly every case, flying is a gift--it's not an inborn part of the heritage. That means that the heritage doesn't naturally have the muscle power and specialized lungs and cardiovascular system needed to support flying. </p><p></p><p>Limit flying speeds. I haven't looked at the speeds of all the heritages with flying ability recently, but it makes perfect sense to say that for a Medium heritage, they can't go faster than 30 feet, and for a Small heritage, they can't go faster than 40 feet. </p><p></p><p>There's also flight <em>ceilings</em>. The Dreamborn from GPG have that limit built into their flying gift--they can't fly more than 10 feet off the ground. They use faerie magic to fly, so you can say that raw wing-power allows for a greater ceiling, but even then you can easily limit PCs to 60 or 100 feet. That's well within the range of most missile weapons and even within the range of some thrown weapons. A large percentage of humanoid foes already carry these weapons, and if they don't, just give some of them a bow. If the PCs are encountering humanoid foes in a random encounter sort of way, then those foes are out hunting, patrolling, or on their way to do Bad Guy stuff, so carrying a bow makes sense.</p><p></p><p>If the PC wants to go past these limitations--carrying more, flying higher or faster--then bring in the Sprint rules. For every round they push themselves, they have to make a Con save of increasing difficulty, or take fatigue. Only this fatigue requires a short rest to recover, not a minute (I feel that Sprint should be changed this way as well, but that's another thing).</p><p></p><p>You want to bring some extra realism in? Flying is hungry work. "Eat like a bird" actually means eating a <em>lot. </em>You fly for more than a minute between rests, or you push your limitations as above, you're going to need to eat two Supply.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Faolyn, post: 9303399, member: 6915329"] And as I said, if the flyer is carrying party members over obstacles, they don't get XP for them and they miss out on any boons they might have found by going through them. I do milestone/story-based leveling, but even then I would say that if you choose to go around the challenges, then your next level is going to be pushed back that much further. Remind them of this when they encounter the challenge or combat, before they choose to go around it. Or, as I also said, simply create new challenges specifically for flying creatures. Go up too high and there will be powerful blasts of winds they have to fight through, and there's already weather-based challenges. There are plenty of flying monsters, and you can always make more. How about carnivorous clouds? Reskin an ooze, push it up a couple of sizes, and give it a fly speed. This isn't targeting flying PCs any more than having ground-based challenges and monsters is targeting walking PCs. Or, as [USER=6747251]@Micah Sweet[/USER] said, simply create those rules. Weight or size limitations make total sense. In the real world, most birds of prey seem to be able to carry between a third and a half of their weight, although I can't find out for how long (as with most things in real life, it can't be boiled down to a simple formula). While some birds can carry more, at least for short periods of time, there's that whole square/cube law that means a 180-pound dragonborn isn't going to be able to carry the same amount as a 20-pound eagle. So it makes a lot of sense to say that flying PCs can't carry a PC that's more than one size smaller then they are, they can't fly while wearing heavy armor, they can't fly while carrying bulky items, etc. Need another justification? In nearly every case, flying is a gift--it's not an inborn part of the heritage. That means that the heritage doesn't naturally have the muscle power and specialized lungs and cardiovascular system needed to support flying. Limit flying speeds. I haven't looked at the speeds of all the heritages with flying ability recently, but it makes perfect sense to say that for a Medium heritage, they can't go faster than 30 feet, and for a Small heritage, they can't go faster than 40 feet. There's also flight [I]ceilings[/I]. The Dreamborn from GPG have that limit built into their flying gift--they can't fly more than 10 feet off the ground. They use faerie magic to fly, so you can say that raw wing-power allows for a greater ceiling, but even then you can easily limit PCs to 60 or 100 feet. That's well within the range of most missile weapons and even within the range of some thrown weapons. A large percentage of humanoid foes already carry these weapons, and if they don't, just give some of them a bow. If the PCs are encountering humanoid foes in a random encounter sort of way, then those foes are out hunting, patrolling, or on their way to do Bad Guy stuff, so carrying a bow makes sense. If the PC wants to go past these limitations--carrying more, flying higher or faster--then bring in the Sprint rules. For every round they push themselves, they have to make a Con save of increasing difficulty, or take fatigue. Only this fatigue requires a short rest to recover, not a minute (I feel that Sprint should be changed this way as well, but that's another thing). You want to bring some extra realism in? Flying is hungry work. "Eat like a bird" actually means eating a [I]lot. [/I]You fly for more than a minute between rests, or you push your limitations as above, you're going to need to eat two Supply. [I][/I] [/QUOTE]
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Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Why is non-magical flying so limited for PCs?
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