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What makes an TTRPG a "Narrative Game" (Apocalypse World Discussion)
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<blockquote data-quote="Emberashh" data-source="post: 9322121" data-attributes="member: 7040941"><p>Ive been pretty adamant in my perspective that every single RPG that has existed in tabletop has at its core a narrative improv game, that doesn't really change in how it works from game to game. </p><p></p><p>From that perspective, the idea of story games or whatever not being RPGs, or in some circles, not even games, tends to fall flat. What those sorts are pointing to, in my opinion, is that these particular games, in terms of what they add beyond the core improv gameloop, are very shallow. </p><p></p><p>Even the more complex games in this type like Ironsworn or Blades in the Dark aren't really all that deep mechanically. And this isn't a bad thing on its own, but it does make it clear why many people will find the games so lacking, particularly if we also take to the perspective that what these kinds of games do narratively aren't actually novel or exclusive to them. </p><p></p><p>As these games main claim to fame is their narrative elements, if one feels that those elements were already present in say DND or GURPs or what have you, then what these games have to give beyond that is gonna feel pretty anemic. </p><p></p><p>That issue is part and parcel to why I think there's such a focus on not classifying PBTA as a system, because these games <em>need</em> the explicit and focused thematics in order to be more substantial, and as such theres never going to be a true generic version of these games. </p><p></p><p>If we take something like the general progenitor Apocalypse World, and strip it bare of its themes and aesthetics down to the pure mechanics, there isn't much there. A non-descript narrative improv game, the Move mechanics, and basically nothing else. </p><p></p><p>That's not much, and while something like FKR exists and can work well, its a niche of a game within a niche of games for a reason. </p><p></p><p>So PBTA style games need to put a lot of effort and thought into the thematic and aesthetic elements, because otherwise the underlying mechanics aren't going to make for a compelling game. </p><p></p><p>Thats the biggest lesson I learned from these games upon understanding this perspective on them, and is why I abandoned the idea of bothering with a generic version of my own system, as well as not going out of my way to address mother may i's with what people might do with the game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Emberashh, post: 9322121, member: 7040941"] Ive been pretty adamant in my perspective that every single RPG that has existed in tabletop has at its core a narrative improv game, that doesn't really change in how it works from game to game. From that perspective, the idea of story games or whatever not being RPGs, or in some circles, not even games, tends to fall flat. What those sorts are pointing to, in my opinion, is that these particular games, in terms of what they add beyond the core improv gameloop, are very shallow. Even the more complex games in this type like Ironsworn or Blades in the Dark aren't really all that deep mechanically. And this isn't a bad thing on its own, but it does make it clear why many people will find the games so lacking, particularly if we also take to the perspective that what these kinds of games do narratively aren't actually novel or exclusive to them. As these games main claim to fame is their narrative elements, if one feels that those elements were already present in say DND or GURPs or what have you, then what these games have to give beyond that is gonna feel pretty anemic. That issue is part and parcel to why I think there's such a focus on not classifying PBTA as a system, because these games [I]need[/I] the explicit and focused thematics in order to be more substantial, and as such theres never going to be a true generic version of these games. If we take something like the general progenitor Apocalypse World, and strip it bare of its themes and aesthetics down to the pure mechanics, there isn't much there. A non-descript narrative improv game, the Move mechanics, and basically nothing else. That's not much, and while something like FKR exists and can work well, its a niche of a game within a niche of games for a reason. So PBTA style games need to put a lot of effort and thought into the thematic and aesthetic elements, because otherwise the underlying mechanics aren't going to make for a compelling game. Thats the biggest lesson I learned from these games upon understanding this perspective on them, and is why I abandoned the idea of bothering with a generic version of my own system, as well as not going out of my way to address mother may i's with what people might do with the game. [/QUOTE]
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