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What Games do you think are Neotrad?
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<blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 9322101" data-attributes="member: 6801252"><p>Princess Play and Dollhouse Play both seem like key components of OC (again, not committing to a distinction between that and neotrad) and in some ways those actually describe a seeming tension from earlier neotrad threads: whether "power gaming character optimization" is an element of OC play and how that squares with the "character expression is key" elements, as they say that a style of play is based on multiple of these things-- in games that feature instrumental play, char op emphasizes the empowerment elements of princess play, and adds a metagame that you can play to spice up the dollhouse (building out individual characters, ideally talking builds with the other players, and even creating cross-party synergies, especially in 4e.)</p><p></p><p>Their description of not moving on from a specific role vaguely reminds me of maybe my favorite author, Mercedes Lackey, most of her high fantasy books have the same basic pattern-- young person leaves a variously dysfunctional and mundane domestic life behind after being chosen by a magical talking animal (Suncats, Companions, Unicorns, even Bondbirds, Elemental-driven Automata bound by the empire they were previously citizens of that they haven't figured out how to actually free yet) for certain reasons, matures via their close relationship with this magical talking animal and their relationships with more worldly and sophisticated people (Heralds, Hawkbrothers, Elves and Wildmages, Otherfolk), and then applies their unique talents to save the kingdom/world/court and take their place as a servant of the people. </p><p></p><p>But what's really cool to me about it, is that she plays with that basic pattern in so many different ways that despite being the model for most of those stories (come to think of it, I don't know if the elemental masters books follow it, the Shadow Grail stuff doesn't) the stories themselves feel radically different, there are so many permutations, fun characters, and plot differences that the core ideas she keeps coming back to don't get old, and I think that's sort of what the ideal, matured version of that is like-- you can be comfortable in your archetypes, but you need to explore new facts of that thing. Sometimes I think it's a limitation of very bespoke systems, that something like playbook play can push you to have a very specific narrative, but because of the incentives and structures, it's a little harder to play with that idea in a new way, the emulation presented is more specific. </p><p></p><p>It's not strict though, Masks can do multiple different kinds of "Robin" archetype character, provided you're willing to switch playbooks from protégé to de-emphasize batman, and there is some wiggle room based on like, the personality of that mentor and your willingness to clash with them up front vs. later.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The-Magic-Sword, post: 9322101, member: 6801252"] Princess Play and Dollhouse Play both seem like key components of OC (again, not committing to a distinction between that and neotrad) and in some ways those actually describe a seeming tension from earlier neotrad threads: whether "power gaming character optimization" is an element of OC play and how that squares with the "character expression is key" elements, as they say that a style of play is based on multiple of these things-- in games that feature instrumental play, char op emphasizes the empowerment elements of princess play, and adds a metagame that you can play to spice up the dollhouse (building out individual characters, ideally talking builds with the other players, and even creating cross-party synergies, especially in 4e.) Their description of not moving on from a specific role vaguely reminds me of maybe my favorite author, Mercedes Lackey, most of her high fantasy books have the same basic pattern-- young person leaves a variously dysfunctional and mundane domestic life behind after being chosen by a magical talking animal (Suncats, Companions, Unicorns, even Bondbirds, Elemental-driven Automata bound by the empire they were previously citizens of that they haven't figured out how to actually free yet) for certain reasons, matures via their close relationship with this magical talking animal and their relationships with more worldly and sophisticated people (Heralds, Hawkbrothers, Elves and Wildmages, Otherfolk), and then applies their unique talents to save the kingdom/world/court and take their place as a servant of the people. But what's really cool to me about it, is that she plays with that basic pattern in so many different ways that despite being the model for most of those stories (come to think of it, I don't know if the elemental masters books follow it, the Shadow Grail stuff doesn't) the stories themselves feel radically different, there are so many permutations, fun characters, and plot differences that the core ideas she keeps coming back to don't get old, and I think that's sort of what the ideal, matured version of that is like-- you can be comfortable in your archetypes, but you need to explore new facts of that thing. Sometimes I think it's a limitation of very bespoke systems, that something like playbook play can push you to have a very specific narrative, but because of the incentives and structures, it's a little harder to play with that idea in a new way, the emulation presented is more specific. It's not strict though, Masks can do multiple different kinds of "Robin" archetype character, provided you're willing to switch playbooks from protégé to de-emphasize batman, and there is some wiggle room based on like, the personality of that mentor and your willingness to clash with them up front vs. later. [/QUOTE]
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