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Unearthed Arcana: Get Better At Skills With These Feats
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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7714818" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>FWIW, in my own anecdotal experience, being a DM and player since 1981 and teaching new players since the mid 80s, I saw a definite shift in player expectations on what you could and couldn't do as the editions progresses. And my DM style didn't change, so I'm pretty sure it was due to the differences in rules. To explain:</p><p></p><p>In AD&D, you had two basic rules: If you want to attack something, it's an attack roll. Anything else you want to do that wouldn't normally be an automatic success for failure is an ability check. That's pretty much it. And "attack" was a lose term. It mean attacking with a weapon, grappling, punching, tripping, anything that was a hostile action toward the target. Leaping from railings, intimidation, recalling lore, etc were all just ability checks. Anyone and everyone could attempt these things.</p><p></p><p>Then 3e came along with clearly defined abilities/skills/powers. I immediately saw a shift in players who would then look at their sheet to see if they had the power/skill/ability to do what they wanted. I mean, it was pretty much immediate and dramatic.</p><p></p><p>Then the optimizer crowd quickly followed, and actively discouraged players from attempting something if they didn't have the highest score in it.</p><p></p><p>Since I didn't change my DMing style, and I doubt the newer generation of players are less creative than old school players, the most obvious answer is the change in the rules. It also makes sense from a human behavior standpoint. Most people want to stick within borders of a rule. And if there's a rule/skill/power for tripping and that player doesn't have it, it is natural behavior for that player to not try it.</p><p></p><p>I know this is just my own personal experience, but I am positive it's not limited to me because we've had MANY internet arguments over this topic since 2000. Heck, it's the <em><strong>basis </strong></em>behind the "fighters can't do anything" argument that always comes up. There's no way I can see how a person can say they have never heard that this is a problem and be an active forum poster. I'm not calling anyone a liar or anything, but there is no way I can see how someone can say that. Especially when they've been part of those discussions in the past.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7714818, member: 15700"] FWIW, in my own anecdotal experience, being a DM and player since 1981 and teaching new players since the mid 80s, I saw a definite shift in player expectations on what you could and couldn't do as the editions progresses. And my DM style didn't change, so I'm pretty sure it was due to the differences in rules. To explain: In AD&D, you had two basic rules: If you want to attack something, it's an attack roll. Anything else you want to do that wouldn't normally be an automatic success for failure is an ability check. That's pretty much it. And "attack" was a lose term. It mean attacking with a weapon, grappling, punching, tripping, anything that was a hostile action toward the target. Leaping from railings, intimidation, recalling lore, etc were all just ability checks. Anyone and everyone could attempt these things. Then 3e came along with clearly defined abilities/skills/powers. I immediately saw a shift in players who would then look at their sheet to see if they had the power/skill/ability to do what they wanted. I mean, it was pretty much immediate and dramatic. Then the optimizer crowd quickly followed, and actively discouraged players from attempting something if they didn't have the highest score in it. Since I didn't change my DMing style, and I doubt the newer generation of players are less creative than old school players, the most obvious answer is the change in the rules. It also makes sense from a human behavior standpoint. Most people want to stick within borders of a rule. And if there's a rule/skill/power for tripping and that player doesn't have it, it is natural behavior for that player to not try it. I know this is just my own personal experience, but I am positive it's not limited to me because we've had MANY internet arguments over this topic since 2000. Heck, it's the [I][B]basis [/B][/I]behind the "fighters can't do anything" argument that always comes up. There's no way I can see how a person can say they have never heard that this is a problem and be an active forum poster. I'm not calling anyone a liar or anything, but there is no way I can see how someone can say that. Especially when they've been part of those discussions in the past. [/QUOTE]
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